Ecotec individual runner manifold

[Blue-Chip]

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone thinks an individual runner manifold would
be a good thing for the N/A ecotecs.
My thoughts are six ram tubes starting there tapper from 55-60mm and going down to six individual butterfly's of around 35-38mm with injectors mounted
above the throttles something similar to the group A's.


Cheers Lou.

 

[Immortality]

sounds like a lot of work, the original ecotec manifold already has individual runners but a common plenum and TB. i guess you could cut the top half on the original manifold and start there but i don't see much point in goingto indevidual butterflies. i see the current thing in V8 super cars is oval butterflies etc. sound like a costly exercise for a small market. maybe try modifiying the standard manifold for a more optimum runner length might see some good gains along with a more optimum plenum volume

 

[KhaosInc]

i think on a stock motor it wouldnt really put out that much gain then it would be worth. major head work, upped comp and a cam to suit would release the potential.
RPW did one for the magna but i cant find it on their site anymore, but they did make some power out of it, but the magna needed a new ecu to cope.

but you could also add a plenum over the ram tube mouths and it could be used in turbo setups for insane throttle response. (GTR style)

but as immortality said small market.

 

[Blue-Chip]

i think on a stock motor it wouldnt really put out that much gain then it would be worth. major head work, upped comp and a cam to suit would release the potential.
RPW did one for the magna but i cant find it on their site anymore, but they did make some power out of it, but the magna needed a new ecu to cope.

but you could also add a plenum over the ram tube mouths and it could be used in turbo setups for insane throttle response. (GTR style)

but as immortality said small market.

KhaosInc, i totally agree with you, while the potential would be very minimal
on a dead stock engine the benifits would be huge on an engine running 10.5-
12:1 comp with a custom ground camshaft running 250-260 duration @50".
We have been looking at putting together some ecotec rotating assembies
with H-Beam rods and forged piston to cope with the added RPM.
The manifold we are conenplating on making would be an alloy casting that
will be CNC machined and made to replace the plenum half of the original
manifold.
If a common plenum manifold could cope with the dramas of fuel reversion
and unequal fuel distribution with such a hi overlap camshaft we wouldn't
even think about heading down this path.
Going ahead with such development would only be a plus for the V6 comunity
where these N/A engines can be on par with forced induction engine and possibly even better again due to a 7200-7500 RPM rev range.
If anyone dissagrees please state why.

Cheers Lou.

 

[Immortality]

we don't disagree that there is a lot of potential in these ecotec engines. maybe best to speak with come racing, they already do a crank/rod/piston combo(i know it's a stroker) but maybe just getting the rods and pistons(i believe they have forged avail for charging applications)to bring up the rpm limits of the motor to the level you seek. i'm sure if you develop a maifold that as you say has individual runners with butterflies etc(with appropriate airbox and filtration to match) there would be interested parties but the cost for a low quantity production runs when you include R&D costs = expensive product. again maybe talk to come racing as they are taking an interest in the ecotec development at the moments (stroker kits and twin TB setup in the works) and they do seem to do a lot of R&D so it would be cost benificial to both parties maybe??? interesting idea though

 

[Blue-Chip]

we don't disagree that there is a lot of potential in these ecotec engines. maybe best to speak with come racing, they already do a crank/rod/piston combo(i know it's a stroker) but maybe just getting the rods and pistons(i believe they have forged avail for charging applications)to bring up the rpm limits of the motor to the level you seek. i'm sure if you develop a maifold that as you say has individual runners with butterflies etc(with appropriate airbox and filtration to match) there would be interested parties but the cost for a low quantity production runs when you include R&D costs = expensive product. again maybe talk to come racing as they are taking an interest in the ecotec development at the moments (stroker kits and twin TB setup in the works) and they do seem to do a lot of R&D so it would be cost benificial to both parties maybe??? interesting idea though

Hi immortaity, i do know of come racing and I am well aware of all there products including there stroker kit combo's and there twin throttle manifolds
and when you look at what you get for your money it does'nt impress me all that much.
If we go ahead with this development it has to be cost effective for the end user, so that you will get the best bang for your buck.
You may ask how is this possible when the cost of such development is so high, well the answer is easy :
I can do all the patterns my self: core boxes, master molds, drag and cope, and any other loose core assosiated with the process.
Of to a foundry, they pour ex- amount of molds, the more the cheaper.
Next they go to my mate that can make all the shafts, butterflies, and linkages and carrie out all the CNC machining tasks.
All we have to do is assemble the units and test them on our inhouse dyno.
As for the rotating assemblies are concerned, we will be using a quality H-Beam rod that was designed for an other engine and with the facilities we have available in our engine reconditioning workshop we can rework these rods to suit a standard Ecotec crank that has been cold treated, micro polished and balanced for increased longjeverdy topped with quality forged
pistons and plasma or chrome molly rings at a far more competitive price than come racing kits.


Cheers.

 

[Immortality]

Hi immortaity, i do know of come racing and I am well aware of all there products including there stroker kit combo's and there twin throttle manifolds
and when you look at what you get for your money it does'nt impress me all that much.
If we go ahead with this development it has to be cost effective for the end user, so that you will get the best bang for your buck.
You may ask how is this possible when the cost of such development is so high, well the answer is easy :
I can do all the patterns my self: core boxes, master molds, drag and cope, and any other loose core assosiated with the process.
Of to a foundry, they pour ex- amount of molds, the more the cheaper.
Next they go to my mate that can make all the shafts, butterflies, and linkages and carrie out all the CNC machining tasks.
All we have to do is assemble the units and test them on our inhouse dyno.
As for the rotating assemblies are concerned, we will be using a quality H-Beam rod that was designed for an other engine and with the facilities we have available in our engine reconditioning workshop we can rework these rods to suit a standard Ecotec crank that has been cold treated, micro polished and balanced for increased longjeverdy topped with quality forged
pistons and plasma or chrome molly rings at a far more competitive price than come racing kits.


Cheers.

agreed, come can be expensive, if you are prepared to to the R&D and you put a good product on the market that performs for a good price then i have no doubt that the customers will come. i certainly would love to get a decent intake manifold for the ecotec i'm goingto build for my project VK race car thats going to be N/A for club day use and maybe targa etc

 

[jc58nc]

I think it would make more sense to "flow test" the intake components of an Ecotec to see where if any parts cause a restriction and work on improving those.
As mentioned it would be a lot of time and effort to make an individual runner manifold with 6 TB's to find no or little gain.

 

[Blue-Chip]

I think it would make more sense to "flow test" the intake components of an Ecotec to see where if any parts cause a restriction and work on improving those.
As mentioned it would be a lot of time and effort to make an individual runner manifold with 6 TB's to find no or little gain.[/QUOTE:

Have allready done that, flow is not the problem a closed plenum manifold is the real problem when trying to extract big horsepower from N/A engines.



Cheers Lou.

 

[Raptorsc]

Lou

I can see where you are going, and with the restrictions on drivers up to 25 age or whatever it is that doesn't let them have forced induction you could have a plan. As you said it will show its gains on much higher than stock RPM engines, for stock engines probably not much. Have you done any tests at all on this theory?

There could be a small market for a low cost Twin TB plenum with the TB's on the drivers side. Just a thought.