9
94hsv
Guest
so am i right if i have a vn calais v8 the wireing loom will go in the vr v6 and be good as new? and all i would need is a vr-vs gearbox will this plug up to standerd v6 g/box loom?
Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.
The VN will use a completely hydraulic auto gearbox, whereas the VR on will use a 4L60E electronic box. The loom (I think) for the gearbox is part of the loom for the engine.
This could work if you use an ECU for a manual, so that it doesn't worry about the proper auto gearbox not being there. I'm not sure if the speedo sensor is that same between manuals and autos.
If you are going to get a VR or VS V8 gearbox, you may as well get the correct wiring loom. In fact, you will need to to get the gearbox to work.
Identify the part numbers on your ECU and see if a new memcal is all that is needed. Else, you will need a V8 ECU to go with the V8. The VN one wont work with the BCM.
This could work if you use an ECU for a manual, so that it doesn't worry about the proper auto gearbox not being there. I'm not sure if the speedo sensor is that same between manuals and autos.
If you are going to get a VR or VS V8 gearbox, you may as well get the correct wiring loom. In fact, you will need to to get the gearbox to work.
Identify the part numbers on your ECU and see if a new memcal is all that is needed. Else, you will need a V8 ECU to go with the V8. The VN one wont work with the BCM.
C
clinker1212
Guest
Just a thought
Have you considered looking around for a supercharged v6 engine instead. You will only need to do minimal changes such as ECU, Wiring Loom, fuel pump, sump, mounts and a few others I cant think of right now. You can look the info up at forced induction technologies.com
May work out easier and cheaper. There are plenty of things you can do to it to give it more power too.
But I personally would definately go with selling The VR and buying a V8- if its a V8 you truly want.
Have you considered looking around for a supercharged v6 engine instead. You will only need to do minimal changes such as ECU, Wiring Loom, fuel pump, sump, mounts and a few others I cant think of right now. You can look the info up at forced induction technologies.com
May work out easier and cheaper. There are plenty of things you can do to it to give it more power too.
But I personally would definately go with selling The VR and buying a V8- if its a V8 you truly want.
clinker1212 said:
These minimal changes aren't really that minimal. You're right, the ECU, loom, and fuel pump need to be changed. The whole engine is different, so there's no need to change just the sump. The sump I think is the same as an ecotec though. The block is the same, but the heads and most other things are different. The pump is different, and if converted to be the same as the factory cars, uses a separate fuel pump control module to vary the pump speed.
If you are going to modify the diff, then you'd want at least the same diff for the SC V6 as you would get for the V8, i.e. LSD.
Brakes on a SC V6 again would need to be better than the normal V6, otherwise you probably wouln't get it certified.
The ECU can be difficult to locate, as the VS supercharged ECU is different to the V6 or V8 one. The VT uses a different ECU again. Good luck finding an ECU, as these engines are more common on VT than VS. If you want to use the VT ECU, you need to have a BCM emulator to work in the VR, or get the chip rewritten.
The gearbox in the genuine SC VS commodore cars is a 4L65e, not a 4L60e, so you would want to change that as well.
All in all, if I wanted a V8, I would swap the V8 into it. The SC V6 is going to be harder to do, as the parts are much less common an therefore expensive. The SC motor and gearbox will cost you more than the V8 motor and gearbox.
Of course, then there's the need to get it engineered as well. As the motor didn't come out in the VR or VS then it needs to be certified. Even though it came in the VSII and III Calais and Statesman, you can't fit it to any other model of VSII !
If you wanted to supercharge a V6, you could probably do it cheaper, but would still need to get it engineered.
I hope this helps.
C
clinker1212
Guest
hmm-- yeah I just got the info from that web site.
This is quoted from the forced induction technologies web site:
"15. Qu: Can I convert my standard Ecotec engine to Supercharged by simply adding a second-hand Eaton M90 Supercharger?
Ans: We get this question quite a lot, and while we don't like to discourage your enthusiasm to supercharge your standard Ecotec motor, we would still however advise against it. Before we get into the technicalities of it all, we'll share this precedent with you. The main reasons being relating to cost, but the other related to performance. Here's a summary:
The heads and manifold are different, so you will need to purchase and fit them. Heads and manifold, if you can even get them, will be around $2,000.
The injectors and fuel rails are different, so will need to purchase them, at a cost of approximately $950.
Need a bigger fuel pump, and/or possible rising rate fuel pressure regulator, cost of approximately $600.
Bottom harmonic balancer is different, and is counterweighted so even changing it to the proper supercharged one will probably upset balance of engine. Plus you will need the pulleys and belt to go with the motor. Cost approximately $700.
Computer/chip is different, so you will need to get it remapped. Cost approximately $750.
Cam is different, pistons are different, rods are different, crank is different. Compression is too high, so even if you did do all of the above you could never get any serious boost into it to make it go like a proper supercharged one.
And on top of all this you still need to factor in the cost of the supercharger itself at approximately $1,500 - $2,000 they ain't cheap.
Add some estimate for labour allow approximately $1,500 - $2,000.
Total: $8,000 - $9,000 and remember you are still going to be behind the eight ball because it won't go like a proper supercharged one."
And this is before you get to the transmission, brakes etc etc...
This is also from the site:
"17. Qu: What's involved in fitting a Holden or Buick S/C V6 to my Commodore?
Ans: This is not an easy question to answer as it depends on so many variables, but we have summarised a few to help you get started:
You may need to change the sump to match the model of Commodore you are putting it into
You may need to upgrade your fuel pump and add rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator
You may need to purchase a matching wiring harness
You may need your computer chip re-programmed or aftermarket computer
You may need to move/alter components in your engine bay to fit the engine in
You may need to strengthen your gear box
With careful planning and correct budget allocation the conversion will be a certain possibility and the end result will certainly be worth it. We wish you the best in your quest for supercharged supremacy."
I hear that the castlemain rodshop does a cheap blower kit though it provides minimal boost.
Anyways- it doesnt mean much cause it is still the long way around the issue. Unfortunately more power = more dollars. No ifs or maybes lol. Moral of the story- just buy a V8 car.
This is quoted from the forced induction technologies web site:
"15. Qu: Can I convert my standard Ecotec engine to Supercharged by simply adding a second-hand Eaton M90 Supercharger?
Ans: We get this question quite a lot, and while we don't like to discourage your enthusiasm to supercharge your standard Ecotec motor, we would still however advise against it. Before we get into the technicalities of it all, we'll share this precedent with you. The main reasons being relating to cost, but the other related to performance. Here's a summary:
The heads and manifold are different, so you will need to purchase and fit them. Heads and manifold, if you can even get them, will be around $2,000.
The injectors and fuel rails are different, so will need to purchase them, at a cost of approximately $950.
Need a bigger fuel pump, and/or possible rising rate fuel pressure regulator, cost of approximately $600.
Bottom harmonic balancer is different, and is counterweighted so even changing it to the proper supercharged one will probably upset balance of engine. Plus you will need the pulleys and belt to go with the motor. Cost approximately $700.
Computer/chip is different, so you will need to get it remapped. Cost approximately $750.
Cam is different, pistons are different, rods are different, crank is different. Compression is too high, so even if you did do all of the above you could never get any serious boost into it to make it go like a proper supercharged one.
And on top of all this you still need to factor in the cost of the supercharger itself at approximately $1,500 - $2,000 they ain't cheap.
Add some estimate for labour allow approximately $1,500 - $2,000.
Total: $8,000 - $9,000 and remember you are still going to be behind the eight ball because it won't go like a proper supercharged one."
And this is before you get to the transmission, brakes etc etc...
This is also from the site:
"17. Qu: What's involved in fitting a Holden or Buick S/C V6 to my Commodore?
Ans: This is not an easy question to answer as it depends on so many variables, but we have summarised a few to help you get started:
You may need to change the sump to match the model of Commodore you are putting it into
You may need to upgrade your fuel pump and add rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator
You may need to purchase a matching wiring harness
You may need your computer chip re-programmed or aftermarket computer
You may need to move/alter components in your engine bay to fit the engine in
You may need to strengthen your gear box
With careful planning and correct budget allocation the conversion will be a certain possibility and the end result will certainly be worth it. We wish you the best in your quest for supercharged supremacy."
I hear that the castlemain rodshop does a cheap blower kit though it provides minimal boost.
Anyways- it doesnt mean much cause it is still the long way around the issue. Unfortunately more power = more dollars. No ifs or maybes lol. Moral of the story- just buy a V8 car.
AirStrike said:
Thanks AirStrike, but I think you are mistaken. The SC motors get the 4L65e, which I believe has stronger components and a larger torque converter. The V8 and the atmo V6 still get the 4L60e though.
By all means, let me know if you know otherwise. When I pull the motor and gearbox out, is there an easy way to identify the 4L60e from the 4L65e?
It seems you can sort of upgrade the 4L60e to a 4L65e by changing to the same planetary gearset and other bits and pieces.
I'm not sure about later models, but I thought maybe later, around the VX, might have got 4L65e's as well, but I don't really know about them.