Ethanol Petrol For Commodores

[vlv8vic]

cheap6 seems to know whats happening. overall people are happy with the new lines of fuel. i work in a servo part time so i get alot of testimonials and beleive me you remember the bad ones and there isnt many.

petrol tankers never share a tank with milk lol.

water may be added to coke at maccas but water is not added to petrol lol.

id say dont diss it if you have a bad run your first time, like someone said the engine needs to learn to handle it, secondly there can often be problems when tanks are changed at servos. Most of these new fuels will be going into tanks which used to house super(leaded), which would explain a few problems. fresh fills can also cause a mix of crap (water, sludge, oil) which live in the lower few inches of a servo tank. as tanks arent usually cleaned out between changes you might be getting alot of this rubbish. i know it sucks and it reflects the servo... im just giving the new fuels their due respect.

 

[MavVP]

I think if anything that has just cemented my view on not using the ethanol fuel.
Well....... till i absolutley have to, when Johnny makes it the only fuel we can use, so his bro-in law on the board of the enthanol board can make his $$$$$

 

[HDT_aero]

I run Plus +94 in my VP and it pharking loves it. 550kms per tank as compared to 450-500 on 91 octane, runs cooler, masses more power, and it's cheaper. No pinging. The only fuel that makes my engine ping and overheat is premium, that CRAP is a waste of time and money.

Mind you my engine was reconditioned not long ago and barely has 90,000kms on it. Barely run in.

Every so often though I will run a tank of regular through just to keep the valves and injectors in good condition, I notice the performance loss, running hot and lack of mileage immediately.

I highly endorse United's new fuels, as do street machine magazine, if I read their glowing performance review correctly. If you car runs poorly on it, I'd be pointing to your worn-our haggard de-tuned engine rather than the fuel you're using.

i always run 98 ron fuel and my cars tuned for it and im telling you ethanol makes my car run ****

 

[BR377]

Ethanol fuel is great in my car, the injectors tick less lol.
I don't notice any improvement in economy, slightly in power but overall i find it better than normal fuel, the car seems to run nicer

 

[mitch01]

[

In the US, EtOH has been used to replace MTBE and ETBE as oxygenates in fuel (required in some states) precisely because it is harmless if it leaks into ground water. MTBE and ETBE are not. Nearly everyone drinks EtOH anyway, so it is definitely not an environmental hazard in that respect.
QUOTE]

umm, not quite correct. As a chemical engineer I can tell you the ethanol used for addition to petrol is fairly toxic & not good for the environment. Naturally produced ethanol (from sugar cane) can only be distilled up to a max of 95% etOH, 5% water. obviously you don't want water in your petrol so the ethanol is treated with toxic (& carcinogenic) chemicals such as benzene & toluene in order to make it more anhydrous.

Furthermore, these solvents can contribute to corrosion of parts in your fuel-lines. (such as rubber seals etc) although they exist in very small concentrations, so are not always problematic.

well thats my 10c haha

 

[jules]

yes but there are limits in the Fuel Quality Stds for benzene, toluene etc. that prevent their being added in excessive quantities.

those substances are added to petrol anyway, they aren't exclusive to ethanol.

a question: don't they separate out those other substances from the anhydrous ethanol before distributing it as fuel? i thought anhydrous ethanol was 99% (or so) neat ethanol and about 1% ULP (to prevent it being consumed).

from AIP submission on proposed ethanol std: (this isn't set in concrete yet)

AIP believes there is merit in the Californian approach. Without this, it would technically possible (for example, if the denaturant had very high levels of these elements) to sell a fuel ethanol that was impossible to blend to meet the petrol or diesel standards. To rule out this possibility, AIP recommends that an Australian fuel ethanol standard includes specifications for these elements at the prevailing standards for these elements in the petrol (in the case of benzene, olefins and aromatics) and diesel standards (in the case of sulfur).

 

[VTSSDUDE]

My car felt like it lost it's sting when I tried E10 petrol. Then after about 3 or 4 tanks I went back to normal petrol. Then all of a sudden my petrol fuel breather lines all started to crack up. Might have been a co-incidence. I don't know.
No way I will use that petrol in my SS. You won't get as many kays out of E10 so is it really economical.

 

[goose2]

i have been using e10 for 6 months my car runs smoother now than when iwas using supposedly 100%petrol .In ballarat [vic] we had servos mixing higher consentrates of eth[cuppla years ago] b4 they were caught,only the eth witch hunters made huge unbacked claimes of what it could do to your engine.i have heard that in te US they run higher ammounts of eth [e15] with no ill effects .remember the basis of the engine your now running was a front wheel drive buick

 

[minux]

cheap6 seems to know whats happening. overall people are happy with the new lines of fuel. i work in a servo part time so i get alot of testimonials and beleive me you remember the bad ones and there isnt many.

petrol tankers never share a tank with milk lol.

water may be added to coke at maccas but water is not added to petrol lol.

id say dont diss it if you have a bad run your first time, like someone said the engine needs to learn to handle it, secondly there can often be problems when tanks are changed at servos. Most of these new fuels will be going into tanks which used to house super(leaded), which would explain a few problems. fresh fills can also cause a mix of crap (water, sludge, oil) which live in the lower few inches of a servo tank. as tanks arent usually cleaned out between changes you might be getting alot of this rubbish. i know it sucks and it reflects the servo... im just giving the new fuels their due respect.

So all the mechanics who have seen first hand the fuel tank corrosion or line corrosion or even the fuel hoses dying is just a coincidence? Sorry guys, but i wont risk putting a cheap fuel into my car, id rather pay my $8 more a litre to have a clean burning free from eth fuel.

 

[Cheap6]

There are standards for the ethanol to be mixed with petrol which includes overall acidity and allowable levels of contamination, including particulates and specific organic acids that are produced by the microbes that do the fermenting (appropriate for the use of ethanol derived from biomass). They are very low.

It is true that ethanol cannot be completely separated from water by distillation alone. For mixing in petrol the remaining water must be removed. The two ways in which this is done on an industrial scale are:

By the addition of a co-solvent like benzene, which is then separated out and the water removed so that the solvent can be reused. Some trace benzene might remain in the ethanol but jules is essentially correct, it is one of the components normally found in many petrols anyway.
The second method is by using a zeolite absorber to extract the water. The water is also removed from the zeolite in order to recycle the zeolite.

Either way, the ethanol is less toxic than the petrol it is to be a part of. The addition of ethanol can be used to lift the octane rating of the final fuel so may replace some quite toxic components of the fuel as well. The problem is not the ethanol but the petrol it is mixed with .

The preference in constructing new ethanol plants seems to be for the zeolite process, largely because it can be more energy efficient.

Ethanol ultimately intended for fuel use must be denatured, typically by adding unleaded petrol, to avoid incurring the higher excise applied to alcoholic drinks.

Anecdotal evidence via mechanics and their generally technically uneducated customers should be treated with caution. Again I will state, that I have personal experience with using ethanol with minimal problems (which perhaps could also be regarded as anecdotal but a known cause/effect situation). There is some difference between a fuel with a composition that is intended to include ethanol and simply adding ethanol to an existing petrol fuel as has happened in the past.