GM's new V8 gets downsized

[Darren_L]

That's the blower help. LS motors have been supercharged since Adam was a pup. and most guys on here know their LS motors are detuned - like a politically correct journalist.

that's what all the LS supporters keep claiming, however none of them seem to be able to answer this question -if the GM engines are indeed 'detuned', then why do GM have to keep building bigger engines to make more power ?
surely they could just 'retune' their existing engines for more power (when the benchmarks are raised) rather than spending millions redeveloping another engine everytime the opposition improves the efficiency & output of smaller capacity engines ?
Bottom line is, GM struggle to make more power AND meet the same emissions standards & acceptable fuel economy (that every other manufacturer has to meet) without increasing capacity, because of the limitations of the LS OHV 2 valve, fixed valve timing engine design.

 

[soop]

They don't, they have different displacement to suit different applications. It just so happens that the bigger the motor the easier it is to pull bigger numbers out of it. It's holden and HSV that decide to use bigger motors. They could have easily put a supercharger on the LS1 and never had to worry about the 6ltr or 6.2. But that hurts insurance which hurts sales. And thats something you have to consider with the coyote motor.
Sure its a new wiz bang supercharged 5ltr. Who's going to buy it? Not mum and dad, Insurance will be killer. Not nan and pa. Not unless one of them is a die hard Ford V8 fan. That leaves Enthusiasts.

Not having ago at the motor it self, I'm sure its a great performer. But in the real world anything that has the air forced into is more expensive on every front. The only way to combat that is to make the NA engine bigger. Just look at Mercedes. 6.2ltr TT V12. Look at lamborghini, 5ltr V10's. Koenigsegg, 4.8ltr and a 6.2ltr supercharged motors.
I'm not comparing LS motors to any of them with regards to performance, but the proof is there for all to see.

There is no replacement for displacement.

 

[f1tzy]

Why would it cost more to insure? My xr6 t costs less to insure than my xr8. Sure its not a sc v8 but its an fi car which is aparently the devil

 

[Jezza]

i will say that the new ford v8 isnt called coyote because its based on it but fpv built the motor and its called the Miama V8 (i read the article in the current Motor or Wheels Magazine)

 

[Full Spectrum]

that's what all the LS supporters keep claiming, however none of them seem to be able to answer this question -if the GM engines are indeed 'detuned', then why do GM have to keep building bigger engines to make more power ?
surely they could just 'retune' their existing engines for more power (when the benchmarks are raised) rather than spending millions redeveloping another engine everytime the opposition improves the efficiency & output of smaller capacity engines ?
Bottom line is, GM struggle to make more power AND meet the same emissions standards & acceptable fuel economy (that every other manufacturer has to meet) without increasing capacity, because of the limitations of the LS OHV 2 valve, fixed valve timing engine design.

Remember the LS1. Holden used that from 220kw. built it up to 250kw. HSV also played with it a touch more. but had that motor doing 285kw in their time. in the long run it's cheap. like soop has said, holden/hsv choose to go the larger motor. maybe for them that way is cheaper then the LS1 way before it ?.

they have plenty of options for that motor, even with OHV. some years ago they spoke about 4vpc twin cams and vct, plus di. what changed i don't know ?. it might come, it might have been to expensive for them ?.

 

[Bravotwozero]

Remember the LS1. Holden used that from 220kw. built it up to 250kw. HSV also played with it a touch more. but had that motor doing 285kw in their time. in the long run it's cheap. like soop has said, holden/hsv choose to go the larger motor. maybe for them that way is cheaper then the LS1 way before it ?.

LS1 was 250kw out of the box. Holden detuned it to 220kw to start with. And I don't understand why everybody is bagging GM for bringing out bigger capacity engines? Nobody slamming Mercedes Benz/AMG for slotting a 6.3 Litre V8 into everything from the C Class to M Class.

 

[soop]

Exactly my point, its great when Mercedes do it, but bogan when GM do it.

GM don't go to OHC and all the other wiz bang acronyms because what they have works perfectly well. AND Will you pay the extra money for a smaller more technical motor that costs more to service?
Thats what they have to contend with. People aren't going to pay top dollar for a staple. And thats what GM vehicles are, they're the banga's and mash of the automotive world.

 

[f1tzy]

LS1 was 250kw out of the box. Holden detuned it to 220kw to start with. And I don't understand why everybody is bagging GM for bringing out bigger capacity engines? Nobody slamming Mercedes Benz/AMG for slotting a 6.3 Litre V8 into everything from the C Class to M Class.

Actually its 6.2litres and it produces a much higher kw/litre than the ls3

 

[f1tzy]

They don't, they have different displacement to suit different applications. It just so happens that the bigger the motor the easier it is to pull bigger numbers out of it. It's holden and HSV that decide to use bigger motors. They could have easily put a supercharger on the LS1 and never had to worry about the 6ltr or 6.2. But that hurts insurance which hurts sales. And thats something you have to consider with the coyote motor.
Sure its a new wiz bang supercharged 5ltr. Who's going to buy it? Not mum and dad, Insurance will be killer. Not nan and pa. Not unless one of them is a die hard Ford V8 fan. That leaves Enthusiasts.

Not having ago at the motor it self, I'm sure its a great performer. But in the real world anything that has the air forced into is more expensive on every front. The only way to combat that is to make the NA engine bigger. Just look at Mercedes. 6.2ltr TT V12. Look at lamborghini, 5ltr V10's. Koenigsegg, 4.8ltr and a 6.2ltr supercharged motors.
I'm not comparing LS motors to any of them with regards to performance, but the proof is there for all to see.

There is no replacement for displacement.

Are you trying to say that supercars have big motors and really good performance

 

[Reaper]

Exactly my point, its great when Mercedes do it, but bogan when GM do it.

GM don't go to OHC and all the other wiz bang acronyms because what they have works perfectly well. AND Will you pay the extra money for a smaller more technical motor that costs more to service?
Thats what they have to contend with. People aren't going to pay top dollar for a staple. And thats what GM vehicles are, they're the banga's and mash of the automotive world.

I'm with soop on this one. You can argue the multi camshaft/valves per cyl as an engineering masterpiece. I also very much appreciate the notion of keeping things simple in achieving an engineering goal. If 1 camshaft achieves your desired output/economy goals then why bother with added complexity??? So what, GM have gone the single cam DOD/sidi route as an answer over the alternative. What is more important? The end or the badge you get to put on your fender to make you feel good?

Badges are just un-necessary slow imo

Reaper