Has anyone installed “Safebrake” braided brake lines?

[Skylarking]

They won't accept screw on fitting brakes hoses for ADR 7 Whip Testing

ADR 7 is depreciated (thus no more) and in fact it’s been replaced by ADR42/04 Part 15? which is in essence a place keeper pointing to foreign standards. Specifically, the section basically states we must comply with either SAA, SAE, BS, JIS, DIN, ISO or ECE Standards, or FMVSS 106 Brake Hoses standards.

But not having gone down the rabbit hole and seen the docs for the above foreign standards, I’m not sure whether these docs would specifically mention a technology wouldn’t be accepted for testing. Normally these things are technology agnostic and one just needs to pass the tests specified within…

However, I’m not sure though it could be old guys behind counters with old rules still stuck in their head, or indeed screw fittings are singled out and aren’t acceptable for some obscure reason, or more likely screw fittings just have a hard time passing the whip test… don’t know…

Whatever the case, if brake lines with screw fittings aren‘t stamped or labeled as meeting the above list of standards for brake hoses, then obviously they can’t be used on road cars…

As for dodgy workers pumping out substandard brake lines, it seems from what I’ve read that the BrakeQuip machines crimps and tests every braided brake line made (though only to 3000psi which seems low as mentioned already). So theses dodgy workers won’t make a bad batch so to say. Maybe not to the spec needed for race cars but not a bad batch…

In any case I’ll accept your experiences with crimped braided lines in race applications as being less than ideal and simply avoid them if ever I get into some serious Fangio action on some track…

 

[RevNev]

ADR 7 is depreciated (thus no more) and in fact it’s been replaced by ADR42/04 Part 15? which is in essence a place keeper pointing to foreign standards. Specifically, the section basically states we must comply with either SAA, SAE, BS, JIS, DIN, ISO or ECE Standards, or FMVSS 106 Brake Hoses standards.

Yes, it's the same ruling where brake line fittings must be crimped regardless of the hose material. There's additional hose material standards in ADR 42/04 which the braided Teflon hose complies.

Like a lot of aftermarket components said to be upgrades, someone gets the notion there's money selling braided brake lines listing the advantages of braided lines over rubber in a marketing strategy convincing people they need them on their road cars. They can't use the strongest (screw on) compression fittings best suited to Teflon braided hose, so they use crimped fittings best suited to rubber hose for legal compliance.

We just need to keep in mind the rationale behind supplying braided brake line kits for road cars is making money, not supplying the ultimate of brakes hoses with the greatest integrity.

 

[Smitty]

........................

In any case I’ll accept your experiences with crimped braided lines in race applications as being less than ideal and simply avoid them if ever I get into some serious Fangio action on some track…

yeah ... tell me about it!
this pic at Phillip Is is the an instance of this (thankfully picked up in the pits)
handbuilt by a reputable 'race oriented' brake place
(they replaced the whole lot FOC and the replacements are different)

 

[vc commodore]

That's correct. They won't accept screw on fitting brakes hoses for ADR 7 Whip Testing. That means, you can't get a screw on fitting brake hose ADR approved and they're consequently illegal rubber or braided Teflon. All brake hose fittings rubber and braided Teflon must be crimped.

Only one hose is submitted for ADR 7 Whip Testing no doubt would be meticulously assembled and crimped to pass the test. What about the other 400 hoses the lacky did on 10 minutes training sold to the public that aren't tested?

When you blow the fitting off the end of hose and kill yourself or someone else, then it'd be reasonable to perceive the lacky didn't do as good a job at crimping the fitting as the boss did on the hose submitted for ADR 7 Whip Testing.


If the brake hose submitted for ADR 7 Whip Testing passes the test, it's then approved of course.

I've seen brake hoses function in extreme conditions for 30 years and the one's I've seen fail the most, are braided brake lines with crimped fittings far more so than OEM rubber hoses. I don't use crimped fitting braided hoses on anything, they're junk in my experience and an OEM rubber hose has far greater crimp integrity due to the compressibility of rubber vs braided Teflon.

The crimp fittings on braide for street use can't be as bad as you are making out....Even if some lacky put them together with a don't give a rats attitude causing failures, it would hit the news and the company would be out of business. You don't need to be too smart to know that.....Maybe someone find some reports of them failing on street driven cars, which is what this thread is about....You know...Fitting them on a street driven car..

I'll add in...For many many years, the S.A transport authority resisted approving braided brake hoses for use in street driven cars, when the rest of the country approved it....The approval was only done about 20 years ago...I am also confident if screw in fitted brakes are as good as claimed, a manufacturer would persist to have them approved, very much like they did with crimped fitted hoses, so they could on sell them to the general public

Yes, you might have struck these issues with race cars with your dealings, but with mine I haven't....Which is what I said very first post...

 

[vc commodore]

Yes, it's the same ruling where brake line fittings must be crimped regardless of the hose material. There's additional hose material standards in ADR 42/04 which the braided Teflon hose complies.

Like a lot of aftermarket components said to be upgrades, someone gets the notion there's money selling braided brake lines listing the advantages of braided lines over rubber in a marketing strategy convincing people they need them on their road cars. They can't use the strongest (screw on) compression fittings best suited to Teflon braided hose, so they use crimped fittings best suited to rubber hose for legal compliance.

We just need to keep in mind the rationale behind supplying braided brake line kits for road cars is making money, not supplying the ultimate of brakes hoses with the greatest integrity.

Me personally bought the braide because of my upgrade....I was using an adaptor that went from the hard line to the flexible line with the VC and didn't like it, as it looked like a potential leak point in the future....So buying one off the shelf was the easiest option...Nothing to do with someone making a quick buck...Nothing to do with it being a race item (Mention the word "race" means diddly to me)...Convenience...That's all...And it turned out to be a better brake feel to me...

And having them on for 5 ish years now and no issues has been a bonus

 

[vr304]

I fitted safe brake braided lines to my ve and haven’t had any issues with them, they seem to be a good quality product in my opinion although I’m not using my car in a race track

 

[stick3]

nsw have annual rego inspections with a brake test for light vehicles under 4.5 ton for vehicle 5 years and older iam quite sure is there was problem found the Goverment/RMS would make them illegal to have them fitted

 

[Skylarking]

yeah ... tell me about it!
this pic at Phillip Is is the an instance of this (thankfully picked up in the pits)
handbuilt by a reputable 'race oriented' brake place
(they replaced the whole lot FOC and the replacements are different)



View attachment 254812

Glad you picked up in the pits and not when hard on the brakes at speed

From what I’ve read, braided brake lines can’t really be inspected in the same way as rubber lines as they normally don’t give hints they are about to fail (rubber lines swell, crack and such)…

In one sense I’d guess braided brake lines are like cam belts where you just never know when they are about to let go Best follow the manufacturers replacement schedule, if they specify one

Oddly some OEM brake hose manufacturers, particularly motorbike manufacturers, specify a replacement schedule of 4 years while others just stay mute… Must go out and check my bike‘s brake lines because it’s been at least 4 years since I’ve ridden it

Does anyone actually follow any specified replacement schedule for their OEM rubber or after market braided brake hoses?

 

[stick3]

Glad you picked up in the pits and not when hard on the brakes at speed

From what I’ve read, braided brake lines can’t really be inspected in the same way as rubber lines as they normally don’t give hints they are about to fail (rubber lines swell, crack and such)…

In one sense I’d guess braided brake lines are like cam belts where you just never know when they are about to let go Best follow the manufacturers replacement schedule, if they specify one

Oddly some OEM brake hose manufacturers, particularly motorbike manufacturers, specify a replacement schedule of 4 years while others just stay mute… Must go out and check my bike‘s brake lines because it’s been at least 4 years since I’ve ridden it

Does anyone actually follow any specified replacement schedule for their OEM rubber or after market braided brake hoses?

only reason i change the hoses on my bike was the way the metal fittings banjo bolts looked rusted faded and the bike was 4 years old at the time 10 years ago

 

[Skylarking]

For many many years, the S.A transport authority resisted

Haven’t you heard “resistance is futile” (where gst on enthusiast dollars can be had)