Historial - What if Holden built the WA Kingswood?

[Calaber]

Can I suggest you read John Wright's book .. the heart of the Lion

I have. Years ago, just after it was released. It sits on my book shelf alongside various other Holden history publications. Where do you think I am able to get so much of my information from, apart from personal recollections of what was going on at the time? I've been a Holden nut since 1970, and have had an avid interest in the history of the company, particularly when it comes to the models that we never got to see, since that time.

 

[Smitty]

VB was the first commodore in 1978.

.. nope

VA was the first Commodore (never released and VB was the first mass produced and sold)

 

[Jxfwsf]

.. nope

VA was the first Commodore (never released and VB was the first mass produced and sold)

So it was a prototype? (UC torana mule?), if it wasn't officially released then to me that doesn't rule out using the model name.

 

[Calaber]

So it was a prototype? (UC torana mule?), if it wasn't officially released then to me that doesn't rule out using the model name.

That's not Holden's practice. Each proposed new model received a model designation at the commencement of design and even if it remained a design study, it retained that designation. Hence the WA designation was never released either - it was a design study only.

 

[Smitty]

So it was a prototype? (UC torana mule?), if it wasn't officially released then to me that doesn't rule out using the model name.

full model... think VB but with 4 headlights and Opel steering box (not rack and pinion like we ended up with) plus LOTS of Opel interior stuff (very different to the VB we got)

 

[Wats_in_a_name]

Can I suggest you read John Wright's book .. the heart of the Lion

it answers pretty much all of this... what happened to WA (and later VA), why WB appeared as it did ( I am waiting for Leo Pruneau to put into words (he still threatens a book or 2)
what he told me about why he did what he did on WB... eg the side strips).... and eventually why Commodore ended up being the winner of the Holden/Torana/V car race
even though the decision to use the Opel Commodore was wrong, way wrong from an engineering and model costing viewpoint* (GM Detroit thought it would be cheap to get it into Oz
... until some broke up during engineering trials and all hell broke loose as the Opel engineers did not believe the Holden strain gauge and other engineering data... after there were no Birdsville Tracks near Russelsheim!


* you can blame me for some of this as I was working at GMH on Forward Model costings at the time

Smitty you seem to have a bit of inside info. Are you able to shed any light on whether the WA came close to production at all or never really had a look in? Also, do you know whether any other engine options were considered for the Kingswood such as adapting the Buick or Cadillac engine (given that Holden's available engines were probably getting a bit long in the tooth by then).

Also, in the book Heart of the Lion it mentions briefly in that chapter that some people said the Commodore was forced on Holden by GM head office although others deny this. From memory do you know if there is any truth in the story of the original Commodore being forced on Holden.

 

[Calaber]

Crowny

Sorry to butt in while you are waiting for Smitty to respond, but I have found a reference to the WA you may not have seen.

In my book "Project VN", on pages 128 and 130, is a reference to the WA being put before a styling clinic to assess its likely acceptance. This would have comprised a model and/or full scale drawings.

To quote the book,

"The car was poorly received at the clinic and the design was scrapped."

 

[Smitty]

Crowny

Sorry to butt in while you are waiting for Smitty to respond, but I have found a reference to the WA you may not have seen.

In my book "Project VN", on pages 128 and 130, is a reference to the WA being put before a styling clinic to assess its likely acceptance. This would have comprised a model and/or full scale drawings.

To quote the book,

"The car was poorly received at the clinic and the design was scrapped."

to follow on from Crowny's question.. yes that is correct
WA was drawn, designed and went to full scale clay model for viewing by the Product review Committee (read GMH directors)
and then to a styling clinic. It went down like a lead balloon... as you would expect from something looking like a bastard match of HX Holden and VA Commodore styling

 

[Wats_in_a_name]

Would it really have been a sales disaster?

The cost of the tooling for the WB, would already have virtually paid for itself given how long it had ran as a model series for, so they wouldn't need to sell millions to make money and if they were already making luxo spec Statesmans then surely it wouldn't be too hard to make non luxo spec cars in a stato body. Maybe not a complete pov pack stripper model in the tradition of the Belmont, but a mid line model? Or was the fear that a continued Statesman would compete too heavily with the Commodore?

I'm thinking it could have a situation similar to the end of Valiant production, where Mitsubishi kept making Valiants because they had the tooling had already paid for itself so they made and sold them for as long as they would sell in any half decent quantity.

This is one of the things that crossed my mind when I made this thread was how much of a disaster would a full sized Kingswood have been given that the HZ sold 150,000 alongside the Commodore. Someone might be able to correct me but this is roughly outselling the Commodore 2:1 (I think the VB sold 79,000). (Admittedly adding radial tune suspension would have been a good upgrade to entice buyers).

Smitty, you might be able to shed some light, was any thought given to continuing the Kingswood in some form after 1979. I have read that the WB was originally meant to play a bigger role and that some dealers wanted a full sized car to offer in case buyers didn't take to the Commodore. Do you know if this true and was any thought given to upgrades to make the Kingswood more saleable (eg engine upgrades such as the Buick or Cadillac engine).

 

[panelhammer]

VA has gone... it was the first Commodore!

It was also a NZ model, between the VK-VL , in new zealand only though so does that still count haha. I think nz still had it's own Holden ckd build facility at the time and this was a model produced to use up excess vh parts, i believe.