Holden Commodore Limited Edition models

[monstar]

Track mode just turns the stability control down even further and changes the chassis input to torque management.

Fixed it for you.

 

[DJ_m]

Fixed it for you.

It would appear so!

 

[DJ_m]

I think it starts with FE3 as a base?

Well I'm not sure there is such thing as a base. MRC is only the ability to adjust the damping force in the shock absorber, nothing more or less.
The question is, when holden talk about FE2. FE3, FE4 etc., exactly what is this? Is it just a softer or firmer shock absorber or is there more to it such as different bushes etc?
If you switched the shocks on a VFII Calais and a VFII Redline then would you have the same handling vehicle?
Certainly, the Director and MSE have the same magnetic ride control (ability to adjust damping force) but the MSE has a different rear frame suspension bush, I think it would be fair to say that the MSE is setup for more spirited driving with all other things being equal.
Does a Director "**** all over" a standard Redline? If the entire suspension set up of a Calais is the same as a Redline, other than the shocks, then you would expect a Director in "Sport" mode to perform identically to a Redline (perhaps a tiny bit better due to a larger wheel). The question would be, what other suspension differences (if any) are in play?

 

[426Cuda]

No

Well I'm not sure there is such thing as a base. MRC is only the ability to adjust the damping force in the shock absorber, nothing more or less.
The question is, when holden talk about FE2. FE3, FE4 etc., exactly what is this? Is it just a softer or firmer shock absorber or is there more to it such as different bushes etc?
If you switched the shocks on a VFII Calais and a VFII Redline then would you have the same handling vehicle?
Certainly, the Director and MSE have the same magnetic ride control (ability to adjust damping force) but the MSE has a different rear frame suspension bush, I think it would be fair to say that the MSE is setup for more spirited driving with all other things being equal.
Does a Director "**** all over" a standard Redline? If the entire suspension set up of a Calais is the same as a Redline, other than the shocks, then you would expect a Director in "Sport" mode to perform identically to a Redline (perhaps a tiny bit better due to a larger wheel). The question would be, what other suspension differences (if any) are in play?

Not sure. But I think it's more than just the struts. I've driven my MSE fast through the the Adelaide Hils with another MSE and a
Director. The Director certainly had no problem on the corners and bends. It handled awesome. Out of interest I have read in some online articles that Holden did a fantastic job of tuning the MRC for the MSE and Director. One said they had done a better job than HSV. Rightly or wrongly.
I've driven plenty of VF2 Redlines and it's chalk and cheese between them and the MSE. As g9odbas the Redlinen8s, the MSE is streets ahead.
@PSISLE or @supercoach what are your thoughts?

 

[monstar]

Well I'm not sure there is such thing as a base. MRC is only the ability to adjust the damping force in the shock absorber, nothing more or less.
The question is, when holden talk about FE2. FE3, FE4 etc., exactly what is this? Is it just a softer or firmer shock absorber or is there more to it such as different bushes etc?

It is the shock absorber compression and rebound setting.

If you switched the shocks on a VFII Calais and a VFII Redline then would you have the same handling vehicle?

Traditionally the Calais has had FE1.5 which is very different to FE3.

Does a Director "**** all over" a standard Redline? If the entire suspension set up of a Calais is the same as a Redline, other than the shocks, then you would expect a Director in "Sport" mode to perform identically to a Redline (perhaps a tiny bit better due to a larger wheel). The question would be, what other suspension differences (if any) are in play?

The larger rim is not for better performance. The best example of the current MRC vs VFII FE3 is discussed in this video where the 2014 Chevy SS has FE3 and the 2015 SS has MRC. Basically the MRC is 1.5 seconds slower around a track, because it is more compliant (cue to 11:30)

I also wouldn't discount the impact of lighter unsprung rotational mass with the two piece rotors, and the PPV bushes.

 

[426Cuda]

It is the shock absorber compression and rebound setting.

Traditionally the Calais has had FE1.5 which is very different to FE3.

The larger rim is not for better performance. The best example of the current MRC vs VFII FE3 is discussed in this video where the 2014 Chevy SS has FE3 and the 2015 SS has MRC. Basically the MRC is 1.5 seconds slower around a track, because it is more compliant (cue to 11:30)

I also wouldn't discount the impact of lighter unsprung rotational mass with the two piece rotors, and the PPV bushes.

I don't think that vid is comparing apples with apples. Also what setting was the MRC in? Believe me, the MRC on the MSE in Perf or Track, is anything but compliant. Real world back to back comparison tells the story far more than a vid with unlnown varaibles mate.

 

[monstar]

I don't think that vid is comparing apples with apples. Also what setting was the MRC in? Believe me, the MRC on the MSE in Perf or Track, is anything but compliant. Real world back to back comparison tells the story far more than a vid with unlnown varaibles mate.

But objectively, from an independent professional reviewer's data it's not faster with MRC, so what you are proposing is the professional driver and team at Ignition didn't turn the knob to Track before setting up the metrics? Perhaps, but the comment is mirrored by owners of 2014 and 2015 on the US SSforums.com as well.
Would be interested to hear that the MRC in Track mode actually performs as well as FE3 because the weight of data (track times) and user opinion (from the owner website) is that MRC is a decent system and comfortable but not as capable on the track.

 

[DJ_m]

It is the shock absorber compression and rebound setting.

So you are saying that the FEx is purely a shock absorber type/setting and nothing else?

Traditionally the Calais has had FE1.5 which is very different to FE3.

I understand. But if the FEx is only related to shock absorbers then switching them between a Calais and Reline would give the same performance?

The larger rim is not for better performance.

I understand the larger rims are for aesthetics and marketing but with a 275/35 tyre on a 20" rim vs a 275/30 on the 19" rim you have a very similar rotation, therefore one would assume a similar if not identical gearing but the lower profile rubber on the 20" rim should (at least theoretically) outperform the larger profile on smaller wheels?

The best example of the current MRC vs VFII FE3 is discussed in this video where the 2014 Chevy SS has FE3 and the 2015 SS has MRC.

This I don't get at all. You are splitting FE3 and MRC. My understanding, is that MRC is the ability to adjust damper setting. So you should be able to achieve FE2, 3, 4 etc. Why would the same vehicle with MRC run slower than a fixed damper unless the MRC vehicle was set to a softer setting?

 

[Anthony121]

The Australian MRC tune was totality different than the US MRC tune

 

[monstar]

So you are saying that the FEx is purely a shock absorber type/setting and nothing else?

Strictly speaking yes is shocks, but in certain combos the sway is modified like FE3 larger on Sedan VF1 reduced VFII and VE modified smaller sway with diff cradle bush for FE2 on Sportwagon.

I understand. But if the FEx is only related to shock absorbers then switching them between a Calais and Reline would give the same performance?

Yes, common mod.

I understand the larger rims are for aesthetics and marketing but with a 275/35 tyre on a 20" rim vs a 275/30 on the 19" rim you have a very similar rotation, therefore one would assume a similar if not identical gearing but the lower profile rubber on the 20" rim should (at least theoretically) outperform the larger profile on smaller wheels?

Although there is a difference hub to road surface (effective torque) with a larger rim that leads to torque difference (like flat vs overinflated tyres on a dyno), it is not so much the rolling circumference at all. Rather the dynamic performance of the lower profile tyre and relative weight of rim versus rubber balloon. Think Race tyres in touring cars / supercars and Drag Radials - low profile makes really poor performance track or strip.

This I don't get at all. You are splitting FE3 and MRC. My understanding, is that MRC is the ability to adjust damper setting. So you should be able to achieve FE2, 3, 4 etc. Why would the same vehicle with MRC run slower than a fixed damper unless the MRC vehicle was set to a softer setting?

Because the MRC is totally different to a normal shock absorber, like digital versus analogue. It is not valving, as has been developed over the past 100 years in racing, is ferrofluid being charged with an electromagnet.