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I Can I fit brembo brakes on a vf 1 ssv with 20 inch Om-1 simmons

Andrew Daniels

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Hi all, i was wondering if I Can I fit brembo brakes on a vf 1 ssv with 20 inch Om-1 simmons
 

Skylarking

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Fitting brembo brakes (that are not an option on your model variant) requires engineering certification. There are many threads on the subject within the VF forum so try a search ;)

If you‘re asking whether your wheels will clean brembo brakes, you could ask the manufacturer or seller whether those wheels fit a Redline :cool:
 

Forg

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Fitting brembo brakes (that are not an option on your model variant) requires engineering certification.
He's in NSW, I'm pretty sure the fact that they were available on a same-year variant (which includes HSV cars) means he doesn't need to get it engineered - as long as he fits the whole brake system.

I wouldn't believe it is OR ISN'T required until talking to a certifying engineer about it, though.

Andrew, give Tempe Tyres a call tomorrow, if you ask whether they'll fit an SSV Redline that'll give you your answer. They look fairly open, I'd be surprised if they don't.
 

Skylarking

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He's in NSW, I'm pretty sure the fact that they were available on a same-year variant (which includes HSV cars) means he doesn't need to get it engineered - as long as he fits the whole brake system.

I wouldn't believe it is OR ISN'T required until talking to a certifying engineer about it, though.
Yes, it’s something that needs to be checked with RMS certified engineer and with RMS itself.

Guess it really comes down to whether the RMS certified engineer will follow the “model variant“ as interpreted by DOTARS (and specified on Road Vehicle Descriptor docs) or use old docs and old terminology (model series) as referenced in VSI #6 dated Nov 2007 which describes LC Torana upgrade using GTR Torana brakes as shown below:

16. Fitting of disc or drum brakes that are not a manufacturer’s option for that series.
Example requiring certification:
• Replacement of front-wheel drum brakes with disc brakes on a vehicle not optioned with front disc brakes by the manufacturer eg fitting disc brakes from a VT model Commodore to a base model LC Torana originally fitted with drum front brakes.
Example not requiring certification:
• Replacement of front-wheel drum brakes with disc brakes on a vehicle available from the manufacturer with front disc brakes as an option where all the parts from that option are fitted eg fitting a base model LC Torana which has drum front brakes with the disc front brakes originally supplied to the GTR model LC Torana.

Probelm is that the RMS Brake Assessment Manual dated July 2017, which describes how brakes are to be tested and certified, makes different statements such as:

Changes which do not require assessing or certification
The following are not considered to be modifications and do NOT require assessing or certification:​
• Replacement of parts or components by identical or equivalent parts or components​
• Replacement of parts or components with equivalent functional performance​
• Optional parts or components as prescribed by the vehicle’s manufacturer​

Modifications which require assessing
Table 1 sets out significant modifications which require the vehicle’s brake system to be assessed. The vehicle may be subject to a single modification or a combination of modifications. If the vehicle has been subject to a number of modifications, the assessment must ensure all the modifications are considered.
Table 1: Modifications which require brake system assessment

11. Fitting larger-diameter brake disc to the front of a vehicle with existing or replacement brake callipers to suit the larger disc diameter.

Typical bureaucracy to have such conflicts within different docs but I’d consider the later doc describing what needs testing and engineering certification to be the correct document ;)
 

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Check with a friendly engineer in NSW but with that wording, I feel good to be in QLD:

1.1 MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION
The following modifications may be performed without certification:
-Fitting a manufacturer’s optional braking system for the particular make/model;

So I bolted a front/rear Redline setup to my SS and moved on :)
 

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Check with a friendly engineer in NSW but with that wording, I feel good to be in QLD:

1.1 MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION
The following modifications may be performed without certification:
-Fitting a manufacturer’s optional braking system for the particular make/model;

So I bolted a front/rear Redline setup to my SS and moved on :)
That’s the kicker in all of this...

For example, Holden never provided an option to order Brembo brakes on a SS model variant. If you wanted such brakes, Holden forced you to buy a different model variant like a SSV Redline.

And the terms used are important because all the vehicle certification documentation are based on “model variant” from what I’ve been told by DOTARS. Further, what is standard or optional fitment is clearly specified on the Road Vehicle Descriptor (even a towbar).

From what DOTARS engineer stated to me, an RVD can be modified by a manufacturer at trivial costs but Holden ”subject matter experts” simply tow the company line that Brembos are not an option on SS’s and SSV’s and they can’t/won’t certify their use on these vehicles.

It’s all crazy to the point of bureaucratic stupidity and (now) only supports vehicle importers. In time will make aftermarket mods just that much more difficult. I hate this system :mad:

But I absolutely agree with finding a friendly engineer to certify things and keep it all above board as is the case now. Just don’t cry if the rules are clarified and backdated and you end up on the wrong side of the line, just as many 4WD vehicle owners with high lifts found out when driving in QLD :mad:
 

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QLD's wording is pretty straightforward though. Doesn't say "model variant" it says "model". So in this case make/model would be Holden/Commodore.
 

Forg

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That’s the kicker in all of this...

For example, Holden never provided an option to order Brembo brakes on a SS model variant. If you wanted such brakes, Holden forced you to buy a different model variant like a SSV Redline.
But ... those parts were fitted to a different trim-level of the same car. Interpremetations.

It’s a little fluffy in a lot of ways.
 

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But ... those parts were fitted to a different trim-level of the same car. Interpremetations.

It’s a little fluffy in a lot of ways.
Yes, different parts, both cosmetic and mechanical, are fitted to different ”trim levels” but they are certified against a specific model variant which is the terminology that's presented to the regulator in the manufacturers documents (as explained to me by DOTARS).

So on a technical level, it’s rather clear that model variant is what the manufacturer certifies. In simple terms it means a SS has not been certified with Brembo brakes.

In practical terms for owners, it could be that a SS may not be able to be updated to the correct ABS/ESC/EBD firmware/calibration file as used in SSV Redline because all files are locked against VIN is some GM Detroit database. Unlike Chevies, we can’t buy some feature update and then download the software/calibration file using TIS2.

The old idea of “body type“ or “model“ or “trim level“ isn’t relevant any longer. For all intents and purposes DOTARS sees a Evoke as a different beast to a SS, different to a SSV and different to a Redline. In simple bureaucratic speak, you may as well consider them as coming from different manufacturers.

The problem is simply that states haven’t updated their VSI and other documents to come into line with the new order. So it’s a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing and in that sense it’s fluffy...

I suspect it is all being driven by the complexities of ABS/ESC/EBD calibration and certification and a lack of support, maybe even driven by vehicle manufacturers, to limit aftermarket modifications. In fact ABS/ESC/EBD issues were the very thing that put some people‘s lifted 4WD‘s off the road in QLD and WA. Now the manufacturers sell lifted trucks with monster suspension like the Ford Ranger Raptor @$76k + ORC... Nuts....

I’d love if it was seen in a simplistic “trim level“ aspect. If it was what is used in a Redline can be used in a SS and what is used in a SS can be used in a Motorsport. As such I wouldn’t have any issues using same width 18x8 wheels all around as it was offered on the SS (obviously they’d be aftermarket 18” rims that fit Brembos as factory rims don’t fit). But it’s simply illegal to do so and I’m stuck with staggered rims (Holden big concession was to provided a letter stating I could use staggered 19” rims). It’s legal to use the shittiest and cheapest tyres available (which would have a larger detriment to vehicle dynamics) but I simply can’t drop an inch or so in rim width unless I go to the engineering certification route. Its crazy crazy crazy.

In chasing this Tyre issue, I’ve been told by many bureaucracies that model /= model variant... Grr, bureaucracies, sometimes all you can do is hate their rules but you can’t really fight them with logic... they jus5 agree with you that it’s crazy but “thems the rules“ :rolleyes:
 

kleanphil

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Fact of the mater is , Shop around for a "noice " mechanic/engineer that is wiling to do the job . I found a engineer/mechanic that certified my supercharger then did the brakes which are Cadillac 6 pot out of good will without me asking
 
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