JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Rufys]

Shouldn't the title of the article be "Gillard re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic"?

 

[Crisis63]

“That Durban has broken up with out any significant outcomes just proves that this is going to be a do-nothing decade for global action on climate change,” he (Abbott) said.

Classic!! I didn’t think Tony believed in the climate change fairy anyway. Why would he care about doing nothing about it?

What’s more amusing is that both the Libs and the Greens don’t like the outcome!

 

[Jesterarts]

Yep warm and fuzzy ain't gonna help them. Neither will anything else if nothing else is done. The current system of helping them help themselves works better than anything else that's been tried.

You're missing the point here. The point is that you guys are talking about living, breathing people, most of whom are in the situation they are in through no fault of their own and with no hope of ever extricating themselves from that environment.

If they try to do as every last one of you would say.. get off their arses and improve their lot.. the only way they can do that is to run away from where they are, and if they do that then you will demand the crappy boats they risk their lives in to escape with be torpedoed on sight.

So that leaves us with 3 options.. nuke the lot of em.. stick your head in the sand and let them suffer.. or try to help them.

I choose the 3rd option. We are a wealthy country, the amount of cash we send them is a drop in the proverbial bucket. More is wasted every year in every government department by stupid **** like double ordering on toilet paper than is sent overseas for foreign aid.

As a part of a global community, more so now than at any time in history, we need to shoulder our share of the load. Its all very well sticking our heads in the sand and saying its not our problem. I wonder how many of us will refuse assistance from the yanks if we are ever attacked.... we are not the isolated island we used to be, we have no choice but to be a part of the global community.

Can't say I agree with option one, but I do agree that helping is the way to go.

Just in this case, the "help" is helping them keep it in their pants so a new generation isn't born into poverty time and time again.

Providing aid the way we currrently do is short sighted as it only is trying to help with the current problem, but next year the problem will be bigger, and the year after that even bigger.

The solution needs to be implemented how with a plan for the future.

Shouldn't the title of the article be "Gillard re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic"?

Saw a cartoon in the Australian of that.

 

[Rufys]

Saw a cartoon in the Australian of that.

LOL!!! That's awesome. I didn't see any cartoons. Would be a classic one though!

 

[kcpwns]

On the topic of third world countries. They have survived this long why help them now?

 

[DAKSTER]

Can't say I agree with option one, but I do agree that helping is the way to go.

Just in this case, the "help" is helping them keep it in their pants so a new generation isn't born into poverty time and time again.

Providing aid the way we currrently do is short sighted as it only is trying to help with the current problem, but next year the problem will be bigger, and the year after that even bigger.

The solution needs to be implemented how with a plan for the future.

I totally agree. The best thing you can do is encourage and reward birth control. I don't think the stick approach is a good idea though, although effective as China has proven, it comes with a huge humanitarian cost.

That leaves the carrot, which invariably cost more than the stick.

The problem with the carrot approach is that then you have a bunch of people coming home from a good job, sticking their feet up on the coffee table, and watching the 55" plasma screen talking about refuges, famine and war, and screaming 'why do I have to pay, I'm too broke, screw them, let em get a job...' News flash guys, walking 5km for a 20l drum of water and walking back with it again is hard yakka, but its the most productive job available to them in many cases...

These people know how hard life can be, especially since in their countries the only thing that keeps old people alive is their kids. Investing in kids is, for them, the only way they can see to ensure survival as they get older. They don't see the larger picture, they know nothing of the world around them. All they see is the need to survive, and kids can be a part of that plan. Yes, we need to offer an alternative plan. Yes, it will cost money. Those that have money will object to giving it.

Brick wall built... no crossing this line thanks poor people.. its your own fault for being born in a different country.

 

[minux]

Yes, it will cost money. Those that have money will object to giving it.

Seeing as you are all for paying for these people feel free to pay my share and I will spend my share on making sure my family is well looked after.

Cheers.

 

[DAKSTER]

On the topic of third world countries. They have survived this long why help them now?

Because every time something happens it gets worse. Why do you think the 'refuge' problem is getting worse? Sticking our heads in the sand wont make it go away.

At the end of 1951 there were 1.5 million forcibly displaced people in the world, according to the UNHCR.
At the end of 2010 there were 47 million forcibly displaced people in the world, according to the UNHCR. We take 13,000 of them at the moment. If the problem is allowed to get worse, do you think we will be able to stop them?

Locking them up on Christmas Island isn't going to make a difference. The only way to stop refuges from coming is to remove the problems they are fleeing from.

 

[Crisis63]

LOL!!! That's awesome. I didn't see any cartoons. Would be a classic one though!

:rofl2: , no really....

 

[minux]

Because every time something happens it gets worse. Why do you think the 'refuge' problem is getting worse? Sticking our heads in the sand wont make it go away.

At the end of 1951 there were 1.5 million forcibly displaced people in the world, according to the UNHCR.
At the end of 2010 there were 47 million forcibly displaced people in the world, according to the UNHCR. We take 13,000 of them at the moment. If the problem is allowed to get worse, do you think we will be able to stop them?

Locking them up on Christmas Island isn't going to make a difference. The only way to stop refuges from coming is to remove the problems they are fleeing from.

You do realise by the immigration departments own admission that most boat people coming to Australia are not refugees right? They are illegal immigrants and mainly financial illegals (last time I spent time speaking to an Aid worker in somalia she was pretty sure none of the people in camps could afford the 50k+ to move a family of 4 from there to here). I am happy to take REAL displaced persons, those coming by boat are rarely displaced and generally have good funding behind them, I mean how else do they pay upwards of 10k a head to get from Indonesia to here?