JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Grennan]

I'm stuffed if I can see how reminding Indonesia of all the help we have given in the past is taken as a threat. It could be intended that way but it's a far more diplomatic way of suggesting that Australians "generally" disagree with the death penalty, don't want these two executed, and would appreciate Indonesia taking our past assistance into account before acting any further.

And Indonesia IS hypocritical in the manner it handles their executions of foreign nationals, whilst pleading with foreign governments (paying bribes and having some success) not to execute their own citizens. Disagree all you like with that point, but it is rank hypocracy. Nothing less.

So far as your final point. Are we then to continue giving one iota of concern for Indonesia when the next disaster hits them? It will be interesting to see what happens the next time they have a major earthquake or some other natural disaster. I reckon I know the answer already. As stated earlier, we will just buckle under and get reamed out....again., because we are too afraid of what the rest of the world will think of us.

I think it certainly was a threat and to be honest, it is a very fair point on behalf of Australia. They need us a lot more than we need them. They take take take from us and we get very little in the way of cooperation or support in return. Our level of financial contribution should come into play, whether that be goods, aid, tourism dollars.

Indonesia requesting the same of other countries, thats not really an issue. It would be an issue if their point was "we think the death sentence is barbaric". They are doing what almost every other nation does and try and bring citizens home to do their sentence. Does it always work for Indo or us for that matter? No, but they have to be seen to try. Just because they plead the case of other nations, does not mean they should bow to the requests of ours.

At this point Indonesia CANNOT give in and they would be stupid to do so. Any threat from Australia, they know is meaningless. As you say, we are to afraid to be harsh in fear of being labeled racist or something stupid. On the other hand, Indonesia cannot give in because their stance on drug crime is paramount. It would also send a very poor message to travelers.

As far as time spent in jail. These guys had a very nice stay in prison. Money talks over there. Im not very sympathetic.

These guys are drug smugglers. They peddle pain and suffering. Shoot them. Be done with it. What makes me sick are all these candle light vigils and ****. How about a vigil for the people who are killed by drug crime.

 

[Jesterarts]

I still cannot believe all the people crapping on about them being 'rehabilitated'.

They are in prison, they don't have any opportunity to do any more bad **** and out of shear bordem have spent their time doing things to keep busy.

If they get off, the message goes out that's it's ok to smuggle drugs after all to Indonesia.

 

[Pollushon]

Yeah don't want to send the wrong message in such a clean uncorrupted country that has had such success quelling its drug problems with capital punishment.

The whole things a fluffing dog and pony show.

 

[Jesterarts]

Yeah don't want to send the wrong message in such a clean uncorrupted country that has had such success quelling its drug problems with capital punishment.

The whole things a fluffing dog and pony show.

Given that the Indonesian justice system is corrupt and they have capital punishment, does this make the decision to smuggle drugs there less or more stupid?

The issue we have here, is that no one in society takes responsibility for their actions even though there are warning labels on everything.

There is a #### off big warning label on Indonesia that says "enter at your own risk, if you make the wrong choice you will end up dead"

Then we cry foul and act surprised when someone has or is about to end up dead.

 

[Grennan]

What I find funny is, these ########s smuggled drugs in right after the Corby case.

If youre that ####ing dumb, ending your contribution to the gene pool is a good step.

 

[Pollushon]

Given that the Indonesian justice system is corrupt and they have capital punishment, does this make the decision to smuggle drugs there less or more stupid?

The issue we have here, is that no one in society takes responsibility for their actions even though there are warning labels on everything.

There is a #### off big warning label on Indonesia that says "enter at your own risk, if you make the wrong choice you will end up dead"

Then we cry foul and act surprised when someone has or is about to end up dead.

I couldn't agree more but lets just call it by its real name is all, this was never about justice, moral values or deterrents.

 

[Grennan]

I couldn't agree more but lets just call it by its real name is all, this was never about justice, moral values or deterrents.

Its about setting an example. It certainly is a deterrent. Those smugglers will never do it again.

 

[Pollushon]

Its about setting an example. It certainly is a deterrent. Those smugglers will never do it again.

Lol, if that's how they count their wins, as Rajesh often says "they're deluding themselves".

 

[Grennan]

Lol, if that's how they count their wins, as Rajesh often says "they're deluding themselves".

The death penalty works both by doing a number of things.

The threat of the sentence trys and deters. Whilst actually killing them puts the fear of god into them.

Im not saying its the best system but its like when you tell your kid im gonna smack your arse. The threat means nothing unless you actually go through with it.

They are not the only country that use the death penalty. If they feel drug trafficking is worth the sentence then so be it. I look at the damage drugs do to peoples lives havign a few addict friends myself and think it is justified.

Im a big believer in an eye for an eye and drugs do far more than take someones life away.

 

[Pollushon]

The death penalty works both by doing a number of things.

The threat of the sentence trys and deters. Whilst actually killing them puts the fear of god into them.

Im not saying its the best system but its like when you tell your kid im gonna smack your arse. The threat means nothing unless you actually go through with it.

They are not the only country that use the death penalty. If they feel drug trafficking is worth the sentence then so be it. I look at the damage drugs do to peoples lives havign a few addict friends myself and think it is justified.

Im a big believer in an eye for an eye and drugs do far more than take someones life away.

That's the thing, there's absolutely no credible evidence to back that up. If anything the anecdotes suggest it has no impact whatsoever.

Whenever I disciplined my children it was out of love, not a misguided sense of justice, it's not even remotely similar. Once I could talk with them and reason, bargain or beg, I no longer had to resort to any form of physical reprimand, I didn't want to. I mean **** people bitch and moan about Islam and the Middle East being so brutally backwards but then applaud Mosaic Law like a bunch of rednecks. Irony anyone?

And as for this aggressive hate towards the dealing fraternity, how many of you are addicts? I'm not, it's widely available, but I'm not interested, most people I know aren't. Folk need to meet in the middle and recognise that this isn't a one way street. There are levels of responsibility someone who chooses to partake needs to accept. Sentiment Jester touched on but not in this context.