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Mark Webber wins in Germany

greenfoam

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Gah but you have loved the guy for years even when he was rubbish. I've seen him DNF more times than anyone else ever apart from maybe a couple of Japanese drivers, so I have to keep my opinion untill he finishes a few more races in front, I can't change my mind after just one win. Until then I rate him almost as out of control as Montoya :p
 

88GreenVN

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LOL at Montoya. He did not last all that long in F1... and now bashing up cars in tin top yank land racing. He gets into the top 20 from time to time. But he is no super star.

As for the Webber DNF - I'd put that down to the cars 90% of the time. He had RUBBISH cars and every one knew this - sept for some aussies I guess.

How many drivers won in a Jag, Minardi? NONE. Because they were rubbish cars 90% of the time.

RED BULL seem to have the bits in place right now, car, team, engineer and bugger me, some drivers that can mix it with the front runners.

This year it looks like if you can get a fat fuel car between you and the pack you can win a race - even with a drive thou penalty.

Vettel has been on a lighter fuel load than Mark all year and pipping him at the post every race. This time he had the lighter car and stuck it on Pole, survived the first corner and bolted. The Fat McLaren held up all the other fast cars for the first stint.

From how I see it with the Red Bull's who ever has the lighter car will probably be on the front row or close to it for now and have the best chance of winning. Vettel got stuck and looked like Webber has for the past few races - being stuck behind a slow car unable to make a pass.

The season is lloking very good for Red Bull and fingers X'd the luck stays on the right side and Mark can snag a few more wins.
 

thestig

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The Puzzle.

I don't like the guy. The reason? I subscribe to the premise that you make you're own luck. Webber always seemed to be lacking that final element that makes a top driver truly great.

When he first came to F1, I was excited by the prospect of seeing an Australian win. The last one to do that (Alan Jones) was someone I had always wanted to punch every time his stupid face appeared on channel 9 right next to that other idiot Daryl Eastlake. Along comes Webber and the prospect of Australian driver competing at the top level of motorsport. Someone to allow me to exercise the little patriotism I have.

After sometime it had become apparent Webber was just a "nearly man" not a "really man". There were too many disappointments, too many mistakes and too much bad luck. Sure the car makes a difference, but if you're in F1 as a complete driver then you need skills other than driving, you need the business acumen to have a chance at one of the better seats. In short you need to know how to sell yourself. And perhaps this is where Mark had been lacking, he's a "nice guy", he doesn't seem to carry an ego the size of a star system. He's not as much of an obsessive compulsive as say the Shumacher's, the Senna's, and the Antony Hamilton's of this world. To put it simply, he's more laid back than his peers. In the white heat of F1 it just doesn't cut it.

As more time and disappointments came and went I finally gave up on the idea of seeing an Australian win a post modern F1 GP. After that Webber was more of an insult, than a source of hope, to my ever dwindling reserves of national pride.

In the off season last year Webber suffered an incident that in hindsight, may have provided what was lacking. He was very nearly killed in a head on collision between a car and his bicycle in Tasmania during a charity (read nice guy) cycling event . After being reported in a serious condition and airlifted to hospital, it soon became apparent that Webber would miss Winter testing and his F1 career could be over.

It would seem that Webber not only suffered physically but mentally. The emotional trauma, a resultant lack of confidence, and a change of perspective have lead Mark to overcompensate by normal standards. I think it's brought his ego up to the level it really needed to be to extract results from the world of F1. He obviously became obsessed with making a full recovery, and as is often the case with high achieving people, surpassed his own abilities through sheer determination.

After 8 years, finally he has joined the winning circle, and I think he did it with style. I watched all of FP1, 2 & 3, Qualifying and the entire race with no adverts. From FP1 on Friday, Webber treated the new Nurburgring as his and his alone. He was hungry and willing to fight, in short he was willing to be a little bit nasty in order to take what he thought was rightfully his. You could see it in his driving. "Aggressive", is not a word you would normally use to describe Webber. It is now, and the result speaks for itself! He seems to have allowed his desire to win outpace his more diplomatic self.

It has been leading this way all year, you could smell something was up, and I had already begun to soften my stance on the man's lack of potential. Right now, I have to say having been a doubter, I am more than pleased to see Mark take his first win in F1. A job well done and a win totally deserved. And here is to many more in the future.

I will hear nothing of the competition being "held up" behind Massa, Brawn cocked it up themselves, 3 stops was madness, especially considering the fact they would have been aware of the the fuel on board the Ferraris, and the fact they had KERS off the line.

As for the previous comments in this thread about Hamilton not being up to scratch I think that Hamilton is a fully fledged champion with an unusual and intermittent streak of self doubt, probably a lot to do with his age and his father suffering from OCD. :)

L8r
 

Tsunamix

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I have liked webbers driving. It's been a good blend of aggression and skill. In the past he has been stuck with inconsistent cars. Sometimes fast and fragile, sometimes slow and predicatble. But Mark Webber has had VERY VERY few accidents.
I believe him on the lose sight of him thing. Barrichello was far enough forward to be out of the mirror view, and still didnt have his front wheel past the cockpit of webbers so he was definitley in the blind spot. I know that webber could definitley see hamilton coming up fast on the left and funnily enough, webber moved away from him. Thats where KERS system gave a big advantage.

Webbers red bull chassis doesn't handle dirty air very well, but in clear air it's a rocket. So he made a point of looking for clear, and found it, and was fast fast fast.

Well earned, hope theres many more.
 

88GreenVN

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Here is two interesting questions...

Who has taken the most races for their first F1 win?

Who has the most races without a win.
 

thestig

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F1 Stats

Here is two interesting questions...

Who has taken the most races for their first F1 win?

Who has the most races without a win.

All time greatest number of drives without a win is Andrea de Cesaris: 214 GP entries, 208 drives, and 0 wins. Of the current crop of drivers, Nick Heidfeld: 161 GP entries, 160 drives, and 0 wins.

Races to first win: Mark Webber is highest with 130 races, first win in Germany 2009 with RBR (Nurburgring). Second is Rubens Barichelllo with 124 races, first win in Germany 2000 with Ferrari (Hockenheimring). Both of course are current drivers.

L8r
 

88GreenVN

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All time greatest number of drives without a win is Andrea de Cesaris: 214 GP entries, 208 drives, and 0 wins. Of the current crop of drivers, Nick Heidfeld: 161 GP entries, 160 drives, and 0 wins.

Races to first win: Mark Webber is highest with 130 races, first win in Germany 2009 with RBR (Nurburgring). Second is Rubens Barichelllo with 124 races, first win in Germany 2000 with Ferrari (Hockenheimring). Both of course are current drivers.

L8r

So Mark Webber now has an F1 record :)
 

Pub247

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I;d like to know for all those people out there that says he is inconsistant and makes to many mistakes is to name a few for me. I can show you just as many mistakes by so called better drivers and world champions as mark webber has made.
I think mark webber is as good as any driver in the feild bar a few (mainly alonso) and better than most. I dont rate hamilton that highly hes a world champion by default and an over aggressive bully on the race track he deserved everything he got coming into the first corner.

I too also find it suprising, that aussie, who seem to barrack for australia in any sport by large hang **** on mark webber and i think i know why. Too many people expect aussies to win in sport and if we dont win we're ****. How many people thought that about soccer (read real football) until the last world cup ? Some still think it now we're not wining and being giant killers.
Maybe Mark's nice guys attitude doesn't seem the norm in F1 but what is wrong with that? I know i'd rather have a a friend like Mark than some egotistical arrogant person who thinks theyre **** dont stink. Lets face it, those type of people society could do without.

I applaud Mark For being australian and more worthy of the title than i lot of people i know and met. He's out there day in and day out for 8 years cutting in the most demanding motorsport in world Trying his hardest to get the best and the most out of his car and team. He hasn't given up in 8 years and over 130 gp's. So many other "good" drivers have come and gone in just that time alone and many are on the way out. I think if your not a good driver you dont last 8 years in f1. Results Dont mean everything and unlike fans the teams and theyre owners know that lap times, consistancey and delivering the most out of the car is what counts and Webber has always done that.

Look At bordeaux 3 time Cart world champ and in Carts no one could touch him comes into F1 and he's just not good enough his lap times are worse the beuemi and no longer has a drive.
Nelson Piquet Jr, Kazuki Nakajima and Nico Rosberg i dont think are cut out for F1. Ros berg i think is the only one that has a chance in the sport. I think the only reason theyre in the sport is because theyre dad's are all previous F1 drivers and world champs

Anyways Good on you Mark i hope there's many more where that one come from. Glad to see you earnt your first Victory unlike your teamate :p
 

hsvpunk

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im guessing you jsut watched the reply too? i did.

Was a good race. He (webber) did well to come back from having the drive thru penalty.

I like when he said in his press confrence at the end about thnking the Australian people who have supported him, and to the people who have doubted him "hello to you"

and for redbull to have picked up 50 points in 3 races, and Brawn to have only got 20 in 3 past races in pretty good. Hopefully some more good races to come.
 
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