boombaby
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2023
- Messages
- 24
- Reaction score
- 12
- Points
- 3
- Age
- 124
- Location
- Perth, W.A.
- Members Ride
- VT ii
G'day!
Yes; that is a lot of exclamation marks, but it's well worth it. Let
me explain...
Firstly, about a week ago I just wanted to change my oil. (VT V6 Ecotech.)
"Easy!". Right? Nup!
You know I always heard stories about people (usually backyard DIY'ers) who
think they can fix/service their car but run into a problem bolt somewhere
or other. (Yes; I used to snigger up my sleeve a little bit. "What's wrong
with them? Must have been a Mummy's boy!", I used to think.)
Well? Hoisted on my own petard! Stuck sump bolt. Got me! Bastard!
So; here's the background. I'm no mechanic, but I am good with my hands.
(Girls! "Good with my hands!".) Used to have a 5.0 litre SS hatchback.
Kept it well maintained. My pride and joy. Well; until the crooks used
to keep thieving it. (Broken into 9 times; stolen 4 times.) I had a steel
steering shroud made so they couldn't get at the ignition rod. Didn't stop
them breaking the window first, to get in. That was $250 a pop! So I used
to take the steering wheel off when not in use. There! That'll stop 'em!
Believe it, or not, that did not stop idiots from breaking the window first,
before they realized there was no steering wheel to drive with. So then
I used to leave a sign on the window (actually both Driver's & Passenger's)
that there was no steering wheel. Did NOT stop the cretins! Can't read?
They kept breaking the window to steal it. The replacement windows and
insurance was just costing too much. And someone made me an offer. (I miss
it now though!)
Moved on to a Nissan Stanza, XF, XA... Now the Commodore. (It actually
reads, "Commodo", because someone stole the last part. Why? How would I
know! They're idiots!!)
So. Damn! VT. Never been tuned in 6 years. Or is it 7? Could be. Anyway;
time to change the oil. Despite no jack stands, no ramps, no driveway, no
garage; that should be easy. So I made a quick ramp using some old concrete
slabs. Perfect!
OK. 19mm socket and extension. Let's go. Dang! That plug's a bit tight!
The socket slipped a couple of times. I was starting to worry a bit. There
were now a few burrs starting on the bolt's head.
I didn't want to do any more damage so I went to 2 car tool-shops for a
solution. No joy. Next I visited the new tool-supply store (from over Sydney
way). OMG! Fabulous! Tools for everything!! ...EXCEPT getting a stuck sump
plug off/out.
Well; best I could do there was buy a hexagon socket (for the hexagonal plug
head). Should be a goer! Right? Nup! Slipped too. This socket (like all
sockets) had that slight recess at the edge. So no "grip-to-the-lip"! Why?
Why is it there... the "recess"?
Also my VT sump plug (all VT sump plugs?) has a thin head only, so that's a
double-whamy, lipless and gripless. So, I filed down the socket edge (ie the
recess) ...to a flush fit. Should be a breeze like that. Drat! Nup!
Remember now; I'm working on my back so it was literally still a bit hard to
push laterally on the socket while putting some release pressure on it too
(at a differnt angle). Another burr!!
Damn! I was starting to use up all my patience fast (and my exclamation
marks!!).
Then it rained for a couple of days, so I had to stop working on the sump
plug. However, I took the time to read up on others' sump problems, and their
attempts, and solutions. It was very, very interesting.
I'd like to take the time to list some worthwhile solutions here for anyone
needing help for the same kind of problem. This list of solutions is kind-of
in the order of bolt "stuckness". (Yes; I just made that up.) However, in
practice, you usually won't know just how stuck the plug is until you try to
remove it. And it begins to take on the appearance of a large, USA-style,
building-rivet. Anyway, the list below is a bit flexible too. (For many
"mechanics", I know this stuck-sump-plug won't be a big issue because they
don't tighten their sump plugs gorilla-tight, and they have hoists and rachet
guns etc. No; I'm talking about a real problem with sump-plugs - for us others.
[Tip: if the sump-plug is really killer tight, or you've already rounded the
bolt head - and you have a day or two to spare - then go straight to # 13.]
So (for a tight/stuck sump plug) in a kind of order try these...
[BEFORE YOU START]
1. If the bolt head is not very thick never use standard "multi-fit" sockets.
Always use the exact shape socket (eg "hexagonal", etc). And best to use
a socket with the edge recess removed/filed down to flush.
2. I bought - but never got to use - "Spanner Inserts for Hex Bolts". [I
bought mine - "TTI" - from Total Tools but this doesn't seem to be listed
on their website now. To show you what these things are there is a similar
type product, but not the same, from Golden Root in Taiwan. Ummmmm? ...
"Gol-den Rooooot... ...." ??? Oops; sorry 'bout that! But THAT really
is their name.) Ummmm? Now where was I? Oh yeah. This is an insert
which fits exactly inside a standard ring spanner (and socket) which converts
it into an exact-fit hexagonal socket - which is very, very tight on the bolt
head. Brilliant!
However my sump plug came out before I got to use this solution. (Wait!
I'm getting to what became my final fix!)
[AFTER YOU DISCOVER THE BOLT IS REALLY, REALLY STUCK]
3. Heat. I mean Oxy-Acetylene high heat. Fairly rapidly, heat the bolt to
cherry red, then stop immediately. Leave it to cool, then put pressure on
the bolt to remove. [I tried a little Map-gas torch but it didn't really
heat the bolt up enough (ie to cherry red). It might have helped; I don't
know. I'll explain soon.]
4. I have seen a video showing the use of an induction-heater-coil (on normal,
house-mains electricty) that is held over/around the head of the plug,
which heats it to cherry red (in about a minute!). Remarkable! (And trust
me, THAT is worth yet another exclamation mark!) This could prove to be a
quick and easy - and very effective - solution. Wish I had one!
5. I have seen a video where the "Extract-or" (ie "person-who-extracts") used
a car-jack on the handle of the affixed wrench to gently increase pressure
until the plug "pops". It can then be easily removed. [I was heading for
this as my own - very risky - next option, but my sump plug released just
beforehand. (Patience; I'll get to "how" shortly.)]
6. If you have a welder and a spare plain nut then you can weld the nut onto
the plug's head to get extra grip. You place the nut over the bolt head
and weld on the inside only of the larger nut. [I like this option, but I
guess it takes some skill ...and room under the car.]
[AFTER YOU'VE DAMAGED THE BOLT HEAD A LITTLE BIT... ]
7. There is a special type of socket which has extra "lands" (?) on it that
enables it to "grip" onto a slightly-damaged head. (I've only seen it in a
video, but could not find it in stores that I visited. Was it called "grip
tight"? It looked good. [Edit... Irwin "Bolt Grip"?] )
8. Only if there is enough thickness on the sump-plug head try a tool like the
Irwin bolt extractor. Gently hammer extractor onto the damaged head, press
on it squarely, then turn to extract the plug.
9. Cold chisel - applied on a slight tangent to bolt axis - and hammer. Risky
one, but it could work for you if you are game or limited in options. [Could
have been a later - or last - contender for me. That is, until I found the
"magic".]
[A F T E R YOU'VE ROUNDED THE BOLT HEAD... ]
10. Water-pump pliers. Large ones. Stilsons with fine teeth for gripping.
11. File the bolt head to an oblong/rectangle shape, and use (quality & largish)
crescent to remove. Have a replacement bolt handy.
12. Create a new hole. (Drill the plug?) This might help someone, but it is
not something I would do except in the most exteme circumstance.
[NOW, IF YOU HAVE A STUCK BOLT, AND TIME TO SPARE... HERE COMES THE MAGIC... ]
13. Due to rain delays I used this option over 3 days. I can assure you THIS
was not the plan. Actually, I have the feeling that the rain delay turned
into some kind of blessing-in-disguise. Now, let me explain...
Prepare by mixing up some acetone and automatic-transmission oil in a ratio
of 1 to 1 (aka 50/50 %). Be careful! It is quite powerful, flammable and
risky. So wear eye protection and (probably) avoid plastic gloves (leather?).
For your safety, read any product labels for yourself, and follow all the
advice therein. So, with an old toothbrush apply a little 50/50 mixture
onto the sump plug (ie onto/into the crevice surrounding the plug's head in
the sump). Re-apply two or three times, in (say) hourly intervals. May I
suggest leaving it overnight? (This is what I did.)
[Personal explanation: I applied the mixture twice, then left overnight. Next
day (due to imminent rain, ie no time) I tried Map gas to heat the plug (which
obviously dried out the mixture (take care the mix is flammable) so I applied
more mixture again. I drove the car for the rest of the day - while there was
continuous rain.
Next morning I applied one last bit of mixture, and prepared to remove the plug
using a new spanner (which I had just bought for the purpose). Before applying
high pressure on the spanner using a car-jack I decided to give it a couple of
hits with a hammer. To be careful on the already-damaged plug I gave it 3
gentle hits... ...tap, tap, tap. The spanner moved easily. Damn! I thought
it had slipped on the plug head again, and wrecked it. DAMN; NOT MORE TROUBLE!!!!
WAIT! THAT'S LOOSE!!!! NO!!!! SNAPPED IT??? WAIT! NO; JUST LOOSE!!! I
mean FINGER LOOSE!! REMARKABLE!!!!!
I mean, it was the gentlest of taps. Astounding stuff.
Now. I have the feeling that applying the mix AND using heat THEN re-applying
the mix MIGHT (MIGHT!) be the reason why the bolt was TOTALLY unfrozen.
Try it on something yourself. It is a REMARKABLE SOLUTION!!! It just took 3
days - BUT - in reality, NO time at all. But I don't care if it was a week. I
am TOTALLY satisfied with the outcome. It worked!! Man; if I had known this
at the start I would have saved a lot of grief, Time and denari. Fab!!!!!
So, anyway. Think about that! If this is such a really good option then ALL
the other options fall away. This solution (pun intended) only relies on you
having time to let the magic happen. But it WILL happen!!!
Boombaby!!!!
Yes; that is a lot of exclamation marks, but it's well worth it. Let
me explain...
Firstly, about a week ago I just wanted to change my oil. (VT V6 Ecotech.)
"Easy!". Right? Nup!
You know I always heard stories about people (usually backyard DIY'ers) who
think they can fix/service their car but run into a problem bolt somewhere
or other. (Yes; I used to snigger up my sleeve a little bit. "What's wrong
with them? Must have been a Mummy's boy!", I used to think.)
Well? Hoisted on my own petard! Stuck sump bolt. Got me! Bastard!
So; here's the background. I'm no mechanic, but I am good with my hands.
(Girls! "Good with my hands!".) Used to have a 5.0 litre SS hatchback.
Kept it well maintained. My pride and joy. Well; until the crooks used
to keep thieving it. (Broken into 9 times; stolen 4 times.) I had a steel
steering shroud made so they couldn't get at the ignition rod. Didn't stop
them breaking the window first, to get in. That was $250 a pop! So I used
to take the steering wheel off when not in use. There! That'll stop 'em!
Believe it, or not, that did not stop idiots from breaking the window first,
before they realized there was no steering wheel to drive with. So then
I used to leave a sign on the window (actually both Driver's & Passenger's)
that there was no steering wheel. Did NOT stop the cretins! Can't read?
They kept breaking the window to steal it. The replacement windows and
insurance was just costing too much. And someone made me an offer. (I miss
it now though!)
Moved on to a Nissan Stanza, XF, XA... Now the Commodore. (It actually
reads, "Commodo", because someone stole the last part. Why? How would I
know! They're idiots!!)
So. Damn! VT. Never been tuned in 6 years. Or is it 7? Could be. Anyway;
time to change the oil. Despite no jack stands, no ramps, no driveway, no
garage; that should be easy. So I made a quick ramp using some old concrete
slabs. Perfect!
OK. 19mm socket and extension. Let's go. Dang! That plug's a bit tight!
The socket slipped a couple of times. I was starting to worry a bit. There
were now a few burrs starting on the bolt's head.
I didn't want to do any more damage so I went to 2 car tool-shops for a
solution. No joy. Next I visited the new tool-supply store (from over Sydney
way). OMG! Fabulous! Tools for everything!! ...EXCEPT getting a stuck sump
plug off/out.
Well; best I could do there was buy a hexagon socket (for the hexagonal plug
head). Should be a goer! Right? Nup! Slipped too. This socket (like all
sockets) had that slight recess at the edge. So no "grip-to-the-lip"! Why?
Why is it there... the "recess"?
Also my VT sump plug (all VT sump plugs?) has a thin head only, so that's a
double-whamy, lipless and gripless. So, I filed down the socket edge (ie the
recess) ...to a flush fit. Should be a breeze like that. Drat! Nup!
Remember now; I'm working on my back so it was literally still a bit hard to
push laterally on the socket while putting some release pressure on it too
(at a differnt angle). Another burr!!
Damn! I was starting to use up all my patience fast (and my exclamation
marks!!).
Then it rained for a couple of days, so I had to stop working on the sump
plug. However, I took the time to read up on others' sump problems, and their
attempts, and solutions. It was very, very interesting.
I'd like to take the time to list some worthwhile solutions here for anyone
needing help for the same kind of problem. This list of solutions is kind-of
in the order of bolt "stuckness". (Yes; I just made that up.) However, in
practice, you usually won't know just how stuck the plug is until you try to
remove it. And it begins to take on the appearance of a large, USA-style,
building-rivet. Anyway, the list below is a bit flexible too. (For many
"mechanics", I know this stuck-sump-plug won't be a big issue because they
don't tighten their sump plugs gorilla-tight, and they have hoists and rachet
guns etc. No; I'm talking about a real problem with sump-plugs - for us others.
[Tip: if the sump-plug is really killer tight, or you've already rounded the
bolt head - and you have a day or two to spare - then go straight to # 13.]
So (for a tight/stuck sump plug) in a kind of order try these...
[BEFORE YOU START]
1. If the bolt head is not very thick never use standard "multi-fit" sockets.
Always use the exact shape socket (eg "hexagonal", etc). And best to use
a socket with the edge recess removed/filed down to flush.
2. I bought - but never got to use - "Spanner Inserts for Hex Bolts". [I
bought mine - "TTI" - from Total Tools but this doesn't seem to be listed
on their website now. To show you what these things are there is a similar
type product, but not the same, from Golden Root in Taiwan. Ummmmm? ...
"Gol-den Rooooot... ...." ??? Oops; sorry 'bout that! But THAT really
is their name.) Ummmm? Now where was I? Oh yeah. This is an insert
which fits exactly inside a standard ring spanner (and socket) which converts
it into an exact-fit hexagonal socket - which is very, very tight on the bolt
head. Brilliant!
However my sump plug came out before I got to use this solution. (Wait!
I'm getting to what became my final fix!)
[AFTER YOU DISCOVER THE BOLT IS REALLY, REALLY STUCK]
3. Heat. I mean Oxy-Acetylene high heat. Fairly rapidly, heat the bolt to
cherry red, then stop immediately. Leave it to cool, then put pressure on
the bolt to remove. [I tried a little Map-gas torch but it didn't really
heat the bolt up enough (ie to cherry red). It might have helped; I don't
know. I'll explain soon.]
4. I have seen a video showing the use of an induction-heater-coil (on normal,
house-mains electricty) that is held over/around the head of the plug,
which heats it to cherry red (in about a minute!). Remarkable! (And trust
me, THAT is worth yet another exclamation mark!) This could prove to be a
quick and easy - and very effective - solution. Wish I had one!
5. I have seen a video where the "Extract-or" (ie "person-who-extracts") used
a car-jack on the handle of the affixed wrench to gently increase pressure
until the plug "pops". It can then be easily removed. [I was heading for
this as my own - very risky - next option, but my sump plug released just
beforehand. (Patience; I'll get to "how" shortly.)]
6. If you have a welder and a spare plain nut then you can weld the nut onto
the plug's head to get extra grip. You place the nut over the bolt head
and weld on the inside only of the larger nut. [I like this option, but I
guess it takes some skill ...and room under the car.]
[AFTER YOU'VE DAMAGED THE BOLT HEAD A LITTLE BIT... ]
7. There is a special type of socket which has extra "lands" (?) on it that
enables it to "grip" onto a slightly-damaged head. (I've only seen it in a
video, but could not find it in stores that I visited. Was it called "grip
tight"? It looked good. [Edit... Irwin "Bolt Grip"?] )
8. Only if there is enough thickness on the sump-plug head try a tool like the
Irwin bolt extractor. Gently hammer extractor onto the damaged head, press
on it squarely, then turn to extract the plug.
9. Cold chisel - applied on a slight tangent to bolt axis - and hammer. Risky
one, but it could work for you if you are game or limited in options. [Could
have been a later - or last - contender for me. That is, until I found the
"magic".]
[A F T E R YOU'VE ROUNDED THE BOLT HEAD... ]
10. Water-pump pliers. Large ones. Stilsons with fine teeth for gripping.
11. File the bolt head to an oblong/rectangle shape, and use (quality & largish)
crescent to remove. Have a replacement bolt handy.
12. Create a new hole. (Drill the plug?) This might help someone, but it is
not something I would do except in the most exteme circumstance.
[NOW, IF YOU HAVE A STUCK BOLT, AND TIME TO SPARE... HERE COMES THE MAGIC... ]
13. Due to rain delays I used this option over 3 days. I can assure you THIS
was not the plan. Actually, I have the feeling that the rain delay turned
into some kind of blessing-in-disguise. Now, let me explain...
Prepare by mixing up some acetone and automatic-transmission oil in a ratio
of 1 to 1 (aka 50/50 %). Be careful! It is quite powerful, flammable and
risky. So wear eye protection and (probably) avoid plastic gloves (leather?).
For your safety, read any product labels for yourself, and follow all the
advice therein. So, with an old toothbrush apply a little 50/50 mixture
onto the sump plug (ie onto/into the crevice surrounding the plug's head in
the sump). Re-apply two or three times, in (say) hourly intervals. May I
suggest leaving it overnight? (This is what I did.)
[Personal explanation: I applied the mixture twice, then left overnight. Next
day (due to imminent rain, ie no time) I tried Map gas to heat the plug (which
obviously dried out the mixture (take care the mix is flammable) so I applied
more mixture again. I drove the car for the rest of the day - while there was
continuous rain.
Next morning I applied one last bit of mixture, and prepared to remove the plug
using a new spanner (which I had just bought for the purpose). Before applying
high pressure on the spanner using a car-jack I decided to give it a couple of
hits with a hammer. To be careful on the already-damaged plug I gave it 3
gentle hits... ...tap, tap, tap. The spanner moved easily. Damn! I thought
it had slipped on the plug head again, and wrecked it. DAMN; NOT MORE TROUBLE!!!!
WAIT! THAT'S LOOSE!!!! NO!!!! SNAPPED IT??? WAIT! NO; JUST LOOSE!!! I
mean FINGER LOOSE!! REMARKABLE!!!!!
I mean, it was the gentlest of taps. Astounding stuff.
Now. I have the feeling that applying the mix AND using heat THEN re-applying
the mix MIGHT (MIGHT!) be the reason why the bolt was TOTALLY unfrozen.
Try it on something yourself. It is a REMARKABLE SOLUTION!!! It just took 3
days - BUT - in reality, NO time at all. But I don't care if it was a week. I
am TOTALLY satisfied with the outcome. It worked!! Man; if I had known this
at the start I would have saved a lot of grief, Time and denari. Fab!!!!!
So, anyway. Think about that! If this is such a really good option then ALL
the other options fall away. This solution (pun intended) only relies on you
having time to let the magic happen. But it WILL happen!!!
Boombaby!!!!
