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Real wheel KW vs. off the flywheel KW

Axel

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My wife has a VX Clubbie R8 and she had a full exhaust job done today with Pacemaker headers, Hi-Flow CATS and 2.5 dual plus PCM edit tune.
Got the dyno sheet and it now delivers 217 Rear Wheel KW.

Does anybody out there know roughly how much this would be off the flywheel? Its a 4 speed auto so probably a fair bit is lost there.

Or does anyone know how many RWKW a standard VX Clubbie delivers? Its 255KW off the flywheel.
 

enhancedss

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sorry mate not the best dyno figures for that car, the exhaust system is good, but the tuners got problems, its one of those edits (old school tuning). but anyway back to the kw, specs. 255 is flywheel kw's, and for the rear on average depending about the 180-190rwkw.
 
B

BLACK346

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enhancedss...How the hell can you tell if it was a good tune or
not by the peak power figure? Too many people getting hung up
on this figure.

Axel...217rwkw equates to roughly 295-300fwkw, and I mean roughly.
You would need to put the motor on an engine dyno for an exact
figure. As I said to enhanced, a very reputable Sydney tuner told
me whilst tuning my LS1, DO NOT GET HUNG UP ON THE PEAK FIGURE.
Plenty of LS1 with so called big power on the dyno getting smashed
at the drags by well tuned cars with lower power.
What did it pull before the edit?
 

Axel

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BLACK346 said:
enhancedss...How the hell can you tell if it was a good tune or
not by the peak power figure? Too many people getting hung up
on this figure.

Axel...217rwkw equates to roughly 295-300fwkw, and I mean roughly.
You would need to put the motor on an engine dyno for an exact
figure. As I said to enhanced, a very reputable Sydney tuner told
me whilst tuning my LS1, DO NOT GET HUNG UP ON THE PEAK FIGURE.
Plenty of LS1 with so called big power on the dyno getting smashed
at the drags by well tuned cars with lower power.
What did it pull before the edit?


Thats the problem, I don't know what the RWKW was before the tune. My wife says she is thinking of taking it to WSID next week for the Wicked Wednesday meet to see what it does over the 1/4 mile. If its not low 13s/high12s, I'd be dissappointed I think.
The funny thing is, my VZ SS Ute feels pretty snappy too and it has only had the Pacemakers and the Hi-Flow cats done, no tune.
 

enhancedss

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when u tune a car, u take into consideration the peak kw's, because thats a good indication of the way the engine is actually reving, but mainly the midrange power curve, when i tune a car i mainly tune for a good torque curve and try to get as much torque as i can achieve, for that engine.
when drag racing, torque gets u off the line, then horsepower takes over, and then u change gears and it happens all over again, all the way down the 1/4. What everyone has to consider when they tune a car, is true not just to achieve the peak kw's, but set up a good combination matching diff gears, etc. The extractors that u fitted to the car were they 4 into 1 or try whys. becuase everything changes etc. Roughly 3 months ago, i was invited to go to another reputable tuner of adelaide to have a dyno night presentation, of his new 1500kw, 4wd dyno where he had a 40000km vy senator completly stock, badged as a 285kw flywheel. They dyno figures showed after 10 runs and the average dyno figure was 202rwkw, i was dumb founded, so i did some research on the hsv engine. and i found that the badged kw's are not correct to the engine dyno from hsv in melbourne. Anyway back to the dyno and kw talk, some engines are slugs, and some engines are freaks. Not everyones car will pump out the same rwkw's, i have nearly finished tuning mine, to the maximum i can get out of the engine, mind u ive spent alot of time on the dyno, the biggest problem is edits, u can take your car to a dealership and get a edit done without even a dyno, now do u call that a custom tune or a of the shelf laptop tune done in know time. i know a few fellow tuners down here who actually do edits, and all they do is down load a tune which has worked on other cars, but some tunes wont work good on other cars, due to exhaust system designs, air intake, auto or manual, different diff ratios, etc,etc. Also just for a tip, on your dyno printout it should have on the top left box, underneith rego numbers and name, it will have rego plate and then a number after it for eg. abc123.009, that tells u how many runs the tuner has actually done with your car, and was the tune done in a shootout mode or not. because power figures and torque figures do change, on average i roughly do about 30-50 dyno runs per ecu map of the vehicle. This saturday i got a big block efi chev to do a ecu map on, and next sunday ive got a stroked corvette to do a ecu map on. Alot of tuners in australia are not actually tuning cars correctly for example i was tought how to tune from a reputable tuner, who has been tuning for about 15years in the industry, and since going to the states, i have really thrown all the learning out the window, that i learn't of him and know he's actually learning of me know and going to the states to do the mapping course, after working with a close v8 supercar team in melbourne, and the states im nearly 20rwkw up on what everyone else is getting out of there cars on a dyno, and quicker 1/4 mile times, My personal car has 256rwkw not bad considering it only has a exhaust system, ecu and a air intake tube to throttle body, and compare that to flywheel kw's its about 330-340fwkw's.
 
B

BLACK346

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enhancedss said:
when u tune a car, u take into consideration the peak kw's, because thats a good indication of the way the engine is actually reving, but mainly the midrange power curve, when i tune a car i mainly tune for a good torque curve and try to get as much torque as i can achieve, for that engine.
when drag racing, torque gets u off the line, then horsepower takes over, and then u change gears and it happens all over again, all the way down the 1/4. What everyone has to consider when they tune a car, is true not just to achieve the peak kw's, but set up a good combination matching diff gears, etc. The extractors that u fitted to the car were they 4 into 1 or try whys. becuase everything changes etc. Roughly 3 months ago, i was invited to go to another reputable tuner of adelaide to have a dyno night presentation, of his new 1500kw, 4wd dyno where he had a 40000km vy senator completly stock, badged as a 285kw flywheel. They dyno figures showed after 10 runs and the average dyno figure was 202rwkw, i was dumb founded, so i did some research on the hsv engine. and i found that the badged kw's are not correct to the engine dyno from hsv in melbourne. Anyway back to the dyno and kw talk, some engines are slugs, and some engines are freaks. Not everyones car will pump out the same rwkw's, i have nearly finished tuning mine, to the maximum i can get out of the engine, mind u ive spent alot of time on the dyno, the biggest problem is edits, u can take your car to a dealership and get a edit done without even a dyno, now do u call that a custom tune or a of the shelf laptop tune done in know time. i know a few fellow tuners down here who actually do edits, and all they do is down load a tune which has worked on other cars, but some tunes wont work good on other cars, due to exhaust system designs, air intake, auto or manual, different diff ratios, etc,etc. Also just for a tip, on your dyno printout it should have on the top left box, underneith rego numbers and name, it will have rego plate and then a number after it for eg. abc123.009, that tells u how many runs the tuner has actually done with your car, and was the tune done in a shootout mode or not. because power figures and torque figures do change, on average i roughly do about 30-50 dyno runs per ecu map of the vehicle. This saturday i got a big block efi chev to do a ecu map on, and next sunday ive got a stroked corvette to do a ecu map on. Alot of tuners in australia are not actually tuning cars correctly for example i was tought how to tune from a reputable tuner, who has been tuning for about 15years in the industry, and since going to the states, i have really thrown all the learning out the window, that i learn't of him and know he's actually learning of me know and going to the states to do the mapping course, after working with a close v8 supercar team in melbourne, and the states im nearly 20rwkw up on what everyone else is getting out of there cars on a dyno, and quicker 1/4 mile times, My personal car has 256rwkw not bad considering it only has a exhaust system, ecu and a air intake tube to throttle body, and compare that to flywheel kw's its about 330-340fwkw's.

The yanks are miles behind our top LS1 tuners. We
also have the fastest LS1 in the world. What are your
quarter times with 256rwkw, in the 11's I assume?
Are your tunes maf or mafless? Majority if not all
of the fastest LS1's in oz seem to be mafless.
 

Troy711

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enhancedss said:
when u tune a car, u take into consideration the peak kw's, because thats a good indication of the way the engine is actually reving, but mainly the midrange power curve, when i tune a car i mainly tune for a good torque curve and try to get as much torque as i can achieve, for that engine.
when drag racing, torque gets u off the line, then horsepower takes over, and then u change gears and it happens all over again, all the way down the 1/4. What everyone has to consider when they tune a car, is true not just to achieve the peak kw's, but set up a good combination matching diff gears, etc. The extractors that u fitted to the car were they 4 into 1 or try whys. becuase everything changes etc. Roughly 3 months ago, i was invited to go to another reputable tuner of adelaide to have a dyno night presentation, of his new 1500kw, 4wd dyno where he had a 40000km vy senator completly stock, badged as a 285kw flywheel. They dyno figures showed after 10 runs and the average dyno figure was 202rwkw, i was dumb founded, so i did some research on the hsv engine. and i found that the badged kw's are not correct to the engine dyno from hsv in melbourne. Anyway back to the dyno and kw talk, some engines are slugs, and some engines are freaks. Not everyones car will pump out the same rwkw's, i have nearly finished tuning mine, to the maximum i can get out of the engine, mind u ive spent alot of time on the dyno, the biggest problem is edits, u can take your car to a dealership and get a edit done without even a dyno, now do u call that a custom tune or a of the shelf laptop tune done in know time. i know a few fellow tuners down here who actually do edits, and all they do is down load a tune which has worked on other cars, but some tunes wont work good on other cars, due to exhaust system designs, air intake, auto or manual, different diff ratios, etc,etc. Also just for a tip, on your dyno printout it should have on the top left box, underneith rego numbers and name, it will have rego plate and then a number after it for eg. abc123.009, that tells u how many runs the tuner has actually done with your car, and was the tune done in a shootout mode or not. because power figures and torque figures do change, on average i roughly do about 30-50 dyno runs per ecu map of the vehicle. This saturday i got a big block efi chev to do a ecu map on, and next sunday ive got a stroked corvette to do a ecu map on. Alot of tuners in australia are not actually tuning cars correctly for example i was tought how to tune from a reputable tuner, who has been tuning for about 15years in the industry, and since going to the states, i have really thrown all the learning out the window, that i learn't of him and know he's actually learning of me know and going to the states to do the mapping course, after working with a close v8 supercar team in melbourne, and the states im nearly 20rwkw up on what everyone else is getting out of there cars on a dyno, and quicker 1/4 mile times, My personal car has 256rwkw not bad considering it only has a exhaust system, ecu and a air intake tube to throttle body, and compare that to flywheel kw's its about 330-340fwkw's.
id read this... but it seriously needs to be edited into paragraphs...
 

enhancedss

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BLACK346 said:
The yanks are miles behind our top LS1 tuners. We
also have the fastest LS1 in the world. What are your
quarter times with 256rwkw, in the 11's I assume?
Are your tunes maf or mafless? Majority if not all
of the fastest LS1's in oz seem to be mafless.

always use maf tunes, and all the fastest ls1's are supercharged/ turbocharged or pumped full of nos, or under that much boost they they **** themselves on the line. The yanks are not behind at all in tuning department, u obviously havent seen 1/4 mile times, australia are over 1/2 a second behind the states, in the dragsters and everything else. a mate at work, his dad friend, owned a australian nascar team, and all his engines were build in the states by the worlds top engine builders. And still to this day one of the engines holds records for the most horsepower and torque readings for a small block, and it revs to 10,500rpm, all race long. And another statement is the ls1 engine came out in the states years and years ago, in the vetts. When u are drag racing, wheather plays a big part in the 1/4 mile time, as well as track temp, etc,etc. Compare both tracks and 1/4 mile times in two different countries, u cant, does one track run down hill, the other up hill, side wind the lot, all plays a part. And another thing is why do 9/10 drag racers buy bikes or cars from the states.
 
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