Ricers... are they really that bad?

[DAKSTER]

lol that wasn't fair you entrapped him.

Love your car .. awesome job congrats.

..although I have to say I don't like the bonnet. Not because its not original, it just doesn't suit my taste. That's ok, I don't mind personalising it....wanna swap?

 

[ari666]

Obviously when it comes to coilovers and actual user experience (perhaps even some track experience) you've had little to none!

*sigh* i wasnt going to get into an online argument, but i have more time this morning so may as well.

so we will take a race car a start with. the car is stripped down before the race, and the suspension set up to suit the track. if it has lots of bumps, or is flat and straight, or has multiple tight corners, then the suspension setup is adjusted to suit.
1. the stock upper and lower wishbones are completely replaced with lighter weight adjustable units, which have pillow balls rather than the stock rubber bushings.
2. the castor arms would also be replaced with units fitted with pillow balls
3. the sway bars are completley replaced, new sway bar to chassis links are fitted, depending on track surfaces, but lets just say they are neolathane greasable units.
4. strut bars are fitted to the tops of the towers
5. all seams are seam welded
6. the brake boosters are braced, either via the RHS strut tower or via the strut braces.
7. tie rod ends replaced with pillow balls.. bugger this, lets just say that ALL factory silicone filled rubber bushings/ball joints etc are replaced with brass... this just saved me typing cos this thread is a waste of my time.

ok, so after all of that stuff is fitted, then you go ahead and fit something that looks like this:

you adjust it fully for the track surface/conditions, drive around and have a great afternoon.. then you take it back to the workshop and strip it all down to make it ready for the next meet.



this is what an average ricer thinks is an imporvement to his suspension:

end user coil-overs are rubbish to start with. coupled with the fact that most douches (yourself excluded of course) dont bother up-spec'ing their bushes/ball joints/ets, which places uneven strain on the weaker components and wears them out UNBELIEVEABLY quickly, then they have the struts set to full hard and run with stock sway bars, which is just frikken stupid. THEN to top it all off, they are not driving it on a track, they are not breaking it down after each day of driving, they are just driving it each day, day after day after day without inspecting their suspension, completely oblivious to the fact that they have accelerated wear on every other component on their car and it as now degraded it to the point where a stock car would out corner, out stop and out accelerate their POS.

the biggest problem with coil overs are the owners that fit them to their cars. dampening is such an import part of the suspension setup and cars like evo's and chasers have suspension which i believe to be works of art. next time i have a chaser up on the hoist i will show the the multi-link rear suspension... then after you see that try and explain to me how fitting an adjustable dampening rate set of coil overs will help. considering itll throw the balance of the rear suspension to the complete shithouse, unless you got through the entire link setup and adjust each one according to the new rate.

96% of cars i get coming in with coil overs have a set of aftermarket rims and thats it. no brakes, nor bushes, no braces. they handle like ****, clunk over bumps, hurt your back driving... but at leats the kids come in and go "OOOHH its got purple coil overs on it, thats good quality, best coilovers available"

if you would like me to back up my opinions, come down and visit my worksop. you live in melbourne. you can even have some of the shitty coil overs i have stripped off, before i throw them in the bin.

 

[wraith]

Really if you enjoy the modifications you have done to your vehicle then so be it. Who gives a stuff what other people think.

 

[WNTDVT]

*sigh* i wasnt going to get into an online argument, but i have more time this morning so may as well.

so we will take a race car a start with. the car is stripped down before the race, and the suspension set up to suit the track. if it has lots of bumps, or is flat and straight, or has multiple tight corners, then the suspension setup is adjusted to suit.
1. the stock upper and lower wishbones are completely replaced with lighter weight adjustable units, which have pillow balls rather than the stock rubber bushings.
2. the castor arms would also be replaced with units fitted with pillow balls
3. the sway bars are completley replaced, new sway bar to chassis links are fitted, depending on track surfaces, but lets just say they are neolathane greasable units.
4. strut bars are fitted to the tops of the towers
5. all seams are seam welded
6. the brake boosters are braced, either via the RHS strut tower or via the strut braces.
7. tie rod ends replaced with pillow balls.. bugger this, lets just say that ALL factory silicone filled rubber bushings/ball joints etc are replaced with brass... this just saved me typing cos this thread is a waste of my time.

ok, so after all of that stuff is fitted, then you go ahead and fit something that looks like this:

you adjust it fully for the track surface/conditions, drive around and have a great afternoon.. then you take it back to the workshop and strip it all down to make it ready for the next meet.



this is what an average ricer thinks is an imporvement to his suspension:

end user coil-overs are rubbish to start with. coupled with the fact that most douches (yourself excluded of course) dont bother up-spec'ing their bushes/ball joints/ets, which places uneven strain on the weaker components and wears them out UNBELIEVEABLY quickly, then they have the struts set to full hard and run with stock sway bars, which is just frikken stupid. THEN to top it all off, they are not driving it on a track, they are not breaking it down after each day of driving, they are just driving it each day, day after day after day without inspecting their suspension, completely oblivious to the fact that they have accelerated wear on every other component on their car and it as now degraded it to the point where a stock car would out corner, out stop and out accelerate their POS.

the biggest problem with coil overs are the owners that fit them to their cars. dampening is such an import part of the suspension setup and cars like evo's and chasers have suspension which i believe to be works of art. next time i have a chaser up on the hoist i will show the the multi-link rear suspension... then after you see that try and explain to me how fitting an adjustable dampening rate set of coil overs will help. considering itll throw the balance of the rear suspension to the complete shithouse, unless you got through the entire link setup and adjust each one according to the new rate.

96% of cars i get coming in with coil overs have a set of aftermarket rims and thats it. no brakes, nor bushes, no braces. they handle like ****, clunk over bumps, hurt your back driving... but at leats the kids come in and go "OOOHH its got purple coil overs on it, thats good quality, best coilovers available" lol - absolute gold!

if you would like me to back up my opinions, come down and visit my worksop. you live in melbourne. you can even have some of the shitty coil overs i have stripped off, before i throw them in the bin.

Much better!

Don't take my little dig to heart, I didn't feel I was going to get a decent response without it's inclusion though

I completely agree with what you're saying however I think to throw around comments like you did saying that coilovers are **** blah blah blah is a little silly, especially considering when plenty of people around here would read it and take it on face value and then preach that view for the rest of their lives to whoever will listen without having actually experienced the units themselves.

You hit the nail on the head with the user comment, same applies to most performance parts as well. The problem is that most people are massive tightasses and are prepared to take the cheap route and overlook important aspects of modification. It's a shame really and especially when dealing with high-performance cars because it's not doing them any justice either!!

The second biggest problem (which comes back to the first) with coilovers is the fact that probably 80% + of people are fitting them for the wrong purpose - to lower the car - with complete disregard for vehicle geometry.

I think (along with quite possibly 99% of people i've come across with experience) that coilovers themselves (please do remember my comments about high end and low end) are great, and that the problems/your views (you're the first person I've come across who is so opposed to them!) only stem from their incorrect application and use rather than from poor design/concept.

I know you were using a track car example however I think your comparison of units is a little unfair considering those TTX units are typically in excess of ~$12k a set. There's plenty of people with track cars running less advanced systems with great results (you know I'm not talking about $1200 specials either!).

Just out of interest, which shop do you run/work for? You can PM me if you like.

Appreciate the response this time around!

 

[Sabbath']

lol that wasn't fair you entrapped him.

VX SS Badges on a VT
Painting the VT tail light garnish and claiming it's a VX item.
Blitz Bonnet
Altezza Front Lights
Monaro Bonnet on a VT

^ Yeap, all cosmetic enhancements.


Not that i cant appreciate the awesomeness of an LS3 in a VT, and the other stuff he's done to it, but for the sake of this thread

 

[ari666]

I think your comparison of units is a little unfair considering those TTX units are typically in excess of ~$12k a set.

HEHEHE so you DO know something about coil overs

yeah look i have to come round an admit that i once drove an evo with a full cusco setup. coil-overs, upper and lower strut bars, mid chassis bar, wishbones, castor arms, the WORKS. this thing has so much anodised blue under it you could harldy see anything factory. GOD DAMN that thing took corners without even breaking sweat.

 

[wraith]

Coil overs are like most things vehicle related don't bother upgrading one component upgrade every thing else that works with it as well.