Shame, Holden Shame!

[Reaper]

No court has ever ruled that the truth is slander.

<lots of irrelevant stuff we have all heard before deleted>
[/I][/B]

As you are probably known by nothing more than a pseudonym (sp?) to the owners of this forum, and they have not either seen the car, let alone have any way of compelling you to provide evidence if they are getting sued, proving your version of the trueth may be very difficult.

Everybody may have very good intentions and you might say that of course you will go into bat for the owners/moderators if it ever got to that stage, but I wouldn't want to rely on the word of some bloke I have never even met when he might well also be looking down the barrel of a law suit.

Reaper

 

[sixshooter]

As you are probably known by nothing more than a pseudonym (sp?) to the owners of this forum, and they have not either seen the car, let alone have any way of compelling you to provide evidence if they are getting sued, proving your version of the trueth may be very difficult.

Everybody may have very good intentions and you might say that of course you will go into bat for the owners/moderators if it ever got to that stage, but I wouldn't want to rely on the word of some bloke I have never even met when he might well also be looking down the barrel of a law suit.

Reaper

Well said !!!

 

[Reaper]

I read your post, I said my information was based solely upon the information given to by RKZ.. I really wouldn't know, nor can I be bothered researching..

Since you don't have a clue and aren't going to research anything properly then why comment at all? My post is based on first hand experience. Extracting money out of bastards who don't pay their bills is a large part of what I do for a living.

Reaper

 

[Shounak]

My comment was based on mods closing this thread.. A problem DOES exist and RKZ is simply trying to rectify it..

I couldn't give a **** about the litte details, but the concept of paying $30k+ for a something which doesn't do what it's meant to do is ridiculous..

Instead of trying to shoot him down, why don't you actually put your knowledge to good use by imparting some of this knowledge you claim to have..

 

[Night]

Again we seem to have guys who only action in this thread is to stir up trouble cause they don't agree with others on this topic. Do yourselves and everyone else a favour and read something else if your only intentions are shooting people down, leave this thread open for guys that are generally interested in the progress of rzk dispute with holden.

From my quick read of the news article sixshooter posted, didn't it refer to an individual person not a company and also another country altogether. I thought laws were different form country to country. But I would really doubt that holdens would even contemplate trying to sue this website as it would draw a very big media response towards their own actions and also their faults in their cars, something that they would have to defend against themselves. I'm pretty sure with the way carsales are going at the moment, the last thing that they would want is bad publicity.

To rzk, some interesting points have been mentioned about different paths you could take in this matter. What are your thoughts on this and do you think you might follow any of these paths if it was viable.

 

[RKZ234]

My post is based on first hand experience. Extracting money out of bastards who don't pay their bills is a large part of what I do for a living. Reaper

If that's the case mate, then I could give you the details of a Tow Operator in Melbourne who Holden has engaged to store my car since it was returned to the factory last June.

Holden hasn't paid their bill and the Tow Operator wants his money. - Serious.

Maybe you can give the Tow Operator some tips on how to get Holden to pay thier bills!

 

[RKZ234]

As you are probably known by nothing more than a pseudonym (sp?) to the owners of this forum, and they have not either seen the car, let alone have any way of compelling you to provide evidence if they are getting sued, proving your version of the trueth may be very difficult.

Everybody may have very good intentions and you might say that of course you will go into bat for the owners/moderators if it ever got to that stage, but I wouldn't want to rely on the word of some bloke I have never even met when he might well also be looking down the barrel of a law suit.

Reaper

So on what basis do you think the owners of the forum could possibly be sued?

The first hurdle is our freedom of speech laws.

Then there is the small matter of a burden of proof Holden needs to satisfy.

To successfully sue, Holden needs to prove, based on the balance of probability that the information I've posted is materially incorrect and that the forum owners knew my posts were incorrect. I'd like to see Holden pull that one off, especially given the information is correct and that there are plenty of historical posts on this site and others elaborating on the fault and that plenty of forum members on this site have admitted to experiencing the problem, but have let holden off the hook and paid to fix it themselves.

Holden couldn't even fix my car, or honour my warranty and they made it.

It is impossible for Holden to prove there is nothing wrong with my car.

But, based on your attempts at scaremongering, you want us all to believe that Holden can deny all Australians their right to freedom of speech and successfully sue the forum owners because I posted my story on the internet?

Are you serious, just trying to scare people or stir trouble? I'd really like to know.

Under our current laws, the truth is not slander.

If you can prove that a person telling the truth is slander, I'm willing to stand corrected and will concede defeat on the matter. I welcome and in fact openly encourage any subsequent post you are willing to offer as proof to substantiate this and eagerly await your post, as no doubt do many others monitoring this issue whom have far more legal knowledge and expertise than you and I combined.

 

[sixshooter]

RKZ234 I could go through this and quote everything I find as Libel...

but I have better things to do with my time...

Your very first post has enough in it anyhow...

All I want to get accross to you is THIS isn't helping much is it ?

3 years and still unresolved ?

Have you spoke to an Ombudsman ?

 

[Reaper]

So on what basis do you think the owners of the forum could possibly be sued?

The first hurdle is our freedom of speech laws.

Then there is the small matter of a burden of proof Holden needs to satisfy.

To successfully sue, Holden needs to prove, based on the balance of probability that the information I've posted is materially incorrect and that the forum owners knew my posts were incorrect. I'd like to see Holden pull that one off, especially given the information is correct and that there are plenty of historical posts on this site and others elaborating on the fault and that plenty of forum members on this site have admitted to experiencing the problem, but have let holden off the hook and paid to fix it themselves.

Holden couldn't even fix my car, or honour my warranty and they made it.

It is impossible for Holden to prove there is nothing wrong with my car.

But, based on your attempts at scaremongering, you want us all to believe that Holden can deny all Australians their right to freedom of speech and successfully sue the forum owners because I posted my story on the internet?

Are you serious, just trying to scare people or stir trouble? I'd really like to know.

Under our current laws, the truth is not slander.

If you can prove that a person telling the truth is slander, I'm willing to stand corrected and will concede defeat on the matter. I welcome and in fact openly encourage any subsequent post you are willing to offer as proof to substantiate this and eagerly await your post, as no doubt do many others monitoring this issue whom have far more legal knowledge and expertise than you and I combined.

My understanding is thus:

Slander is when somebody says or publishes comments that would cause another party to be viewed in an unfavourable light. This may cause financial damage or damage to their reputation or standing in the community. That is the test that a court will use from the prosecution's side. I think you satisfy this test.

There are a few defences available with the trueth being one of them *however* there have been many cases where even though the comments have been found to be fact, the person making the comments has still been found guilty.

Case in point was mid-late last year. Herald Sun reporter Simon Bolt was ordered to pay a large sum to (I can't remember who) even though it was found that everything he published was true and correct. I believe you are in Victoria so finding information on it shouldn't be too hard.

ISP's and the owners of this forum could claim ignorance as a defence. They are not expected to monitor all their content however if they do become aware of it, they are obliged to remove it. As several moderators have posted to this thread I doubt they have any chance of that defence ever holding water.

As for my intentions, my aim is to bring a bit of balance to this arguement. I have seen a ton of guff and a lot of bold typing in this thread but when it comes down to it, you (to my knowledge) refuse to take the correct action and bring legal action. To me that is a strong indication that things might not be quite as you have expressed them on this forum.

Reaper

 

[RKZ234]

I have seen a ton of guff and a lot of bold typing in this thread but when it comes down to it, you (to my knowledge) refuse to take the correct action and bring legal action. To me that is a strong indication that things might not be quite as you have expressed them on this forum.

Reaper

No it isn't. Things are precicely as I've expressed them in this forum.

It's actually an indication that I've done a lot of research and discovered that I can't affor to enter into a pi$$ing contest with Holden in court. Their Legal department's budget in the millions of dollars is slightly bigger than mine.

I've already mentioned that justice in a court sense, is a commodity which you have to buy and Holden can afford to buy a lot more than I can, which is the crux of the whole matter. It has nothng to do with being in the right whatsoever.