Vehicle weights for towing

[tangleswog]

Hi there

I am looking at buying a camper trailer and want to make sure I buy one I can tow. Apologies if someone has already answered this question, but I can't find the answer.

I can't find my VZ (V6) acclaim wagon's GCM and GVM anywhere. There is a spot for the GVM on the sticker on the passenger door pillar, but there is no number there.

I have the original manual and it steps out the maximum load of the front and back axles, but that is it. I have purchased a towbar a while ago that is rated to tow 2100kg with a towball weight of 210kg.

The trailer I am looking at has a tare of approx 1500kg, and an ATM of 2000kg. I just don't know if I am still ok to tow something this weight once I have a full tank and the missus and 2 small kids in the car too.

I have another question too, and as I am new to forums, I don't know if I need to ask this question separately, but has any one in here towed an offroad trailer with their commodore? Is it as simple as buying a height adjustable towball for the towbar?

 

[Skylarking]

Sadly passenger vehicles are not required by law to list GVM on their compliance plate. Equally sad is that it seems Holden Customer Care doesn’t seem to be forthcoming with such information either (from what I’ve read on these forums).

Complete heavy towing guide: GVM, GCM, payload, towball limits explained is worth a read as is the Toyota doc it references. But I’d hammer HCC for an official letter as to the vehicle‘s GVM and axle loads and then make a trip to a weigh bridge to work out what your vehicle can really tow.

Just keep in mind that whatever rating is listed on the towbar label itself, it means little as manufacturers play silly games where the tow vehicle may only be able to carry a 50kg driver and a tank of fuel and nothing else when towing a trailer at the towbar labels weight

And if you are in the market for a trailer, do consider some modern inclusions like ABS & ESC, see this post for some details. Makes towing much safer (though it can’t overcome physics and silly driver behaviour)...

Here is another thread with info that may be of interest.

And just cause, here’s another of John’s video’s on trailer trashed - how not to tow anything...

 

[tangleswog]

Thanks for the info!

so it is as I feared, and not that my google chops aren’t up to scratch, but that Holden don’t seem to be handing out these 2 numbers out freely.

I will contact HCC and see what they come back with.

I love my wagon and my wife is really pushing to decide on a camper trailer. I just want to make sure the old girl is going to be able to tow the trailer safely.

all the things I have read about measuring towing capacity seem straight forward enough once you decipher the acronyms, but I kind of need these 2 numbers to understand what I can safely tow.

To add to the confusion of all this, I was wanting to buy a camper trailer that had off road capabilities, so when the commodore goes to meet its maker, I can buy a 4WD and then go off road. This has meant research into whether I can raise the tow ball height to safely tow an off road camper.

I think I might be over reaching.

thank again for the info.

 

[Skylarking]

The Toyota doc referenced within the first John Cadogan link I provided also contains info on towbar tongues that can be flipped to get a higher or lower tow ball height. Such towbar tongues specify load ratings in both configurations within the towbar label. The fact such Toyota towbar tongues specify both configurations means that they have been certified in both configurations (heights) by Toyota.

The Holden towbar label only specifies the one configuration (height). You can buy after market tongues that can vary the ball height. Such are not an official accessory and use of these after market tongues would be outside the manufacturers specs so would void factory warranty if such tongues causes issues in use.

As for Holden not providing GVM info, that‘s rather poor form from them. It’s probably a ploy to avoid the embarrassment related to the very low cargo weight that their passenger cars can actually carry when towing the full GTM specified on the towbar label.

Heck, even Landcruisers aren’t as great as they are made out... the link I provided to John Cadogan‘s article indicates only 4 people at 65kg each can be carried within the 4x4 when towing the max load of 3500kgs. Chuck needed stuff in the caravan and into the car and you almost always end up seriously overweight....

So GVM and GTM are the start points and then you look at loosing weight to cater for the crap you want to carry with you when heading off...

Curious to hear what the wagons GVM and kerb weight is and how it relates to going on holidays with 5 fat blokes, a few slabs of beer, a side of beef, fishing rods, cooking equipment, guns and other necessary stuff

 

[rambunctious]

Might find something here

vz acclaim wagon kerb weight - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

 

[EYY]

As a matter of safety, I wouldn’t consider towing anything more than 1000kg max braked with a commodore. Irs means they’re a bit more unstable when loaded, and they don’t have the weight to tow anything decent.

You really need to consider how the vehicle/trailer combo will behave in an emergency situation. You may not want to hear it, but you’re better off buying a medium sized 4x4. You’ll thank yourself for the extra level of safety, additional (and more useable) room and off-road capabilities.

A commodore is fine for towing every now and again but I certainly wouldn’t tow for long periods of time. Just because plenty of people tow massive loads doesn’t mean that it’s safe.

 

[Skylarking]

Might find something here

http://[URL]https://www.bing.com/se...-28&sk=&cvid=EF1C5A48010E48BAA0A8BDE3C3682715

[/URL]

For towing, kerb weight is useless without knowing the Gross Vehicle Mass and maximum front and rear axle loads. Without the later bits of info, there is no way to determine if you are overloaded...

Here is some interesting info from this web page:

Weight:

• Executive sedan with V6 (kg): 1568
• Executive wagon with V6 (kg): 1640
• Acclaim sedan with V6 (kg): 1574
• Acclaim wagon with V6 (kg): 1647
• SV6 (kg): 1592
• SV8 (kg): 1639
• SS (kg): 1654
• Berlina sedan with V6 (kg): 1587
• Berlina wagon with V6 (kg): 1663
• Calais with V6 (kg): 1642
• One Tonner Cross 6 with A/C kerb mass (kg): 1669
• One Tonner Cross 6 Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) (kg): 2685
• Crewman Cross 6 kerb mass (kg): 1904
• Crewman Cross 6 Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) (kg): 2685
• Crewman Cross 8 kerb mass (kg): 1942
• Crewman Cross 8 Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) (kg): 2685
• Monaro with Manual (kg): 1692
• Monaro with Auto (kg): 1698

With the one toner V6 ute, if you have a 80 kg driver and a 70kg passenger with 70 kg tow bar installed with a connected trailer putting 210 kg tow ball weight on the bar, that means you have:

2685-1669-80-70-70-210 = 586 kg max in the tray when towing a 2100kg trailer... So it’s no longer a 1 tonne ute. If you tried to put 1 tonne in the tray when towing such a trailer, you’d be seriously overloaded (by 414 kgs) And if you’re astute, you’d notice the v6 1 toner ute can carry 273kg more than the porky crewman cross 8

That’s why GVM is such an important number to know when towing... and Holden doesn’t list it for passenger cars while happily selling owners 2100kg tow bars

 

[Skylarking]

As a matter of safety, I wouldn’t consider towing anything more than 1000kg max braked with a commodore.... Just because plenty of people tow massive loads doesn’t mean that it’s safe.

This ^

 

[figjam]

2685-1669-80-70-70-210 = 586 kg max in the tray when towing a 2100kg trailer... So it’s no longer a 1 tonne ute. If you tried to put 1 tonne in the tray when towing such a trailer, you’d be seriously overloaded (by 414 kgs)

Try telling that to the drivers of a 4x4 double cab ute with an advertised 3,500kg towing capacity, hooked up to their $100K off-road double-axle van, with the boat on the roof racks, and a tray full of much needed 'stuff'.

There is another John Cadogan video ..... https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/towing-trailer-australia.
A lot of people think he is a foul mouthed wanker, but I can't see anything wrong with his advice.

 

[tangleswog]

Thanks everyone for your help on this one. I did contact Holden Customer Care and this is what they sent me.

Thank you for contacting Holden Customer Care with your GVM and GCM enquiry.

We can advise that the GVM can be found on the Compliance label in the engine bay of your vehicle. We cannot guarantee that the Compliance label will contain the GVM. The GVM is only supplied for commercial vehicles so that they can be loaded accordingly. Passenger cars are designed to carry passengers and luggage based on how many seats. Therefore, unfortunately, we are unable to provide GVM for passenger cars.

However, we do highly recommend referring to the 'Tow and Load' section of Owner's Manual for your vehicle. This section goes into high detail regarding the maximum vehicle payloads, maximum towing capacities, towing trailers and overloading.

If you reply to this email and provide us with your Vehicle Identification Number, we will be able to send you the exact pages of the Owner's Manual with the relevant tow and load information.

Regarding the GCM, for Passenger Cars & SUVs there is not a single number for the combined vehicle and trailer mass when towing.
There are 5 limits, all of which must not be exceeded
- Maximum Payload (luggage + accessories)
- Maximum Towing Rating
- Maximum Tow Ball Load
- Front Axle Load Limit
- Rear Axle Load Limit

Please not that a trailer tow ball load will add load to the rear axle, which must remain below the rear axle limit. Tow ball load must also be considered as part of the payload. Loading and towing is quite complex and is again described in more detail in your Owner's Manual.

Alternatively, for further technical information, we also recommend speaking to the Service Department at one of our Holden Dealerships. Your nearest Holden dealership can be found via the dealer locator on the Holden website:

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In my owner's manual, the page they are referring to says a wagon like mine has a:
Rear Axle Load of 1300kg
Front Axle Load of 1060kg

The trailer I am looking at has a tow ball weight of 152kg, and a Tare weight of 1340kg. I will be towing it without anything else in it. EYY's post has got me a little worried. I thought that with a tow ball weight and tare like this, I would be fine with the touted 2100kg towing capacity. I thought I had done enough of the maths to make sure I wouldn't be overloaded.

Just as an aside, we would be only doing very short trip with it until I can get my intended upgrade to a medium size 4x4 with a much higher towing capacity.

Thanks again all.