VN 6 Bolt Crank Flywheel, flexplate & pressure plate torque?

[PUSHIN]

So I'm soon to be doing a manual conversion on a Series ONE vn v6 - 6 bolt crank (lacking a spigot bush, flywheel bolts, flexplate bolts & pressure plate bolts)

I've pulled up a heap of search's on this matter and have had a lot of trouble finding specific information, even asked somebody to check a manual for me to see what it said, all I'm finding, and what the stated manual said is:

flywheel/flexplate: Step 1: 18-22 Nm
Step 2: +70-75°

Pressure Plate: 20-25 Nm

My problem isn't particularly with the pressure plate (unless anyone else knows otherwise?) but more so the flywheel/flexplate, a lot of the threads I pulled up here mentioned that the stated flywheel/flexplate specs are for the 8 bolt flywheel NOT the 6 bolt, but the service manual only had these settings under v6, just wondering if anyone can clarify that this is or is not the correct torque settings?

another minor question; I don't plan on paying gm an arm and a leg for the bolts, so i'll source them from a local shop, a couple of people specifically stated NOT to use loctite (on the TTY flywheel/flexplate bolts) due to it acting as a lubricant and changing the torque(ing?) of the bolt (it was put far more technically then that, just cant be buggered finding all the threads to directly link them, but they had very valid points)
Can anyone clarify this? i personally feel i SHOULD use it, as i really don't want my flywheel coming off. but in saying that, what if i don't do them up enough? :/

I much appreciate any and all inputs on this matter, I've spent at least 4 hours searching with no results so if anyone could help it would be a great relief.

Edit: Sorry, I did just find one I read a week or two ago and forgot about, saying 90 Nm for the flywheel, is this correct and also the same for the flexplate? this is already stated in the thread i've brang up but 90 Nm seems a bit extreme , although this is exactly why i'm worried about the '22nm + 70°' :/

 

[Brett_jjj]

Thye VN workshop manual says the flywheel/drive plate bolts on the first V6 models made from 1988 to 1991, tighten up to 90 Nm.
The flywheel/drive plate bolts on V6 models made after 1991 tighten up to 22 Nm + a further 75 degrees. (75 degrees is roughly just under a quarter of a turn)

 

[Immortality]

Stuff using original GM TTY bolts. go grab a set of decent ARP bolts and be done with it, a lot cheaper too. Check the V6 crank info thread in the V6 modification sub section for the correct ARP part number. IF I remember correctly they are the same bolts as used on the Chev 350 engines.

For the pressure plate bolts I ditched the standard bolts as well and used some high tensile cap screws and torqued them up to what ever the recommended torque setting for that size high tensile bolt.

 

[PUSHIN]

sorry, Brett; i read your response the day you posted it but couldn't reply for some reason, i greatly appreciate your input thank you very much for clearing everything up.

immortality; you sir are an absolute bloody legend, i've just spent the last two hours calling everyone under the bloody sun looking for flywheel bolts. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! i'll suss all this out now and see what i can do, i looked up the ARP website but wasn't listed for commodore, so as you've said i'll suss out the crank info thread, i do recall reading somewhere about the same as the 350 bolts thing, so you could well be bang on. also sorry to sound like a twit, but can you at all elaborate on 'high tensile cap screws'? a search on them has just brought up hex key bolts, if so is there a particular reason you've gone that way? (if so, i may need to go buy a hex key thinga ma jiggy to fit the monster torque wrench)

so, the last 2 hours consisted of;

Repco; 'uhm.. i don't know what they're worth..' me; 'can you find out?' repco; 'i can call them if you like...' me; 'yes, please....' they get my name and number, no call back, lovely.

exactly the same from bursons, except he seemed even LESS inclined to help.

AutoBarn did very well, they actually DID make a call, and then DID call me back, unfortunately i'm out of luck with them as the company they called have no part number for the v6 bolt, rarara, i should go to the local bolt shop (whom i did, nah mate, we get blokes here lookin for these all the time. rararara. so, you still don't get them then??? not to mention, i walk in, 'yeah mate, i'm looking for 6 of these, im told its meant to be 'strength 8' high tensile, Torque-To-Yield bolt.' 'yeah that means nothing here..' 'woah, i just walked into A BOLT SHOP, correct?? -.-)

supercheap: $65, no information, unsure if they will be TTY or not & not even sure if they were for the 6 bolt, it all seemed a bit uncertain..

Holden, my BEST mates, came through with a spigot bush for $13 the other day, loved that. flywheel bolts; 'yeah theres 6 sets up in NSW, call them get them to send them down..' 'uuuh... okay? no problem...' so i proceed to call the shop he's given me the number for. 'nah mate, don't have any, dont know what he was on about.' call local joint, back, again palms me off and tells me to call a shop in QLD, says there's two sets.. well this time at least he was partly right, after 15 minutes on the phone the bloke finally gets around to finding it all and crap, 'yeah mate theres 2 here' 'sweet, can you give me a price on one set?' 'oh, no there's only two bolts..' WHAT THE HELL!!! even when i'm prepared to pay 50 bucks a set i can't bloody get them!!!

And dellow: i called him 'are they torque-to-yield bolts?' 'we get asked about the torque rating all the time but i don't really know, i know its on the internet somewhere..' so, correct me if i'm wrong but i didnt really get to that yet, i'm asking if the bloody things stretch. needless to say i kinda left it at that, i can't be bothered making an ass of myself debating with people over stupid crap, and upon trying to google the bloody torque of the dam things i cant even find it, lovely!!

needless to say supercheap CAN help, repco and bursons MIGHT be able to, but realistically i shouldn't have to screw around so dam much for something so simple, $65 for 6 bolts is bloody insane, and even if repco or bursons can help i imagine its just going to be the same, and i will NOT hand that cash over to idiots like that.

Cheers again guys i really do appreciate the help!

 

[PUSHIN]

'for future reference they are a 7/16 UNF bolt (20 TPI) x 1" (25mm) with a shallow head'

That's from what you've posted on the crank thread, immortality. you were later quoted with someone saying its the same as chev/ford small block, arp part number is # 100-2801

I'll assume that they're correct ones, i've sussed it all out a bit now and yeah, seems pretty sweet so i guess i should make a purchase of a set of those bad boys.
As for the flexplate, would it be worth grabbing auto small block bolts from ARP (100-2901) (7/16 unf x 5/8"), or just go up to the local bolt shop and get them? if i go to the bolt shop and the flexplate bolts also have a shallow head (dont have the auto off yet, due to searching for these bolts half of the day -.-) I'd have to file them back a bit as they don't have any small headed bolts, in the end it'd save me over $20 though, not a big figure, but to think i'd pay $3 instead of ~$28, thats a big difference lol.

 

[Immortality]

The ARP bolts are the correct ones as I have a set in the garage and they are exactly the same as the factory TTY bolts.

Caps screws are basically a high tensile bolt, grade 12.8 which is basically the best grade high tensile industrial bolt available, a lot stronger that the grade 8.8 high tensile bolts used in standard automotive applications. Grade 12.8 high tensile bolts are slightly better than the base grade ARP offerings. I would recommend visiting your local engineering outlet to find quality cap screws, they should also be able to provide a chart with the appropriate torque loading for each size (diameter and thread type such as coarse or fine threads etc). And yes, cap screws are also known as hey key bolts.

On a mild performance built where you would maybe consider using ARP head and mains bolts (note, not studs) I would use cap screws as they are just as good and a lot cheaper and much stronger than the factory head/mains bolts. The trick is to get the correct torque settings as this is crucial.

Most of the idiots that work at the likes of Repco, Bursons, Supercheap can only ever tell you what the catalogue says or what info is on the back of the packet. Real actual knowledge about parts/usage is almost non-existent. If you do find a guy at one of the above outlets that does know what he's talking about (it does happen), get to know him as they can be invaluable in helping you find that "hard to find" part that occasionally need (normally urgently). Years ago, There were a couple of guys that always looked after me at a local APPCO branch, they were old school, real good parts knowledge. I always dropped in a box of beers at Xmas and it was worth every cent......

 

[PUSHIN]

I can imagine that box of beers would have been well worth while! see I do completely agree & understand that they may not be so knowledgeable about the specific parts I need or whatnot, but a little bit of effort can go a long way sometimes, and that's all I was really after lol.

and thank you for the cap screw information, highly appreciated! hmm, I'll have to have a look into local engineering outlets, don't really live in a 'city' per say so i'm not 100% sure of one straight of the top of my head, not the kind of thing anybody has brought up in conversation, but I'll definitely look into that rather then the bolt shop I've spoken of as i doubt they could give me much of an idea on the required torque, which as you said is very important.

Thank you very much for all the information you've supplied, This has been very helpful, thanks again!

 

[Immortality]

Most engineering shops should have little pocket books that have lots of useful information in them such as drilling speeds, tapping hole sizes, milling head cutter speeds, some of these will have bolt torque ratings as well. otherwise a search online should find you the info as well. I'd ask at the bolt shop as well, if they are worth there salt they should be able to provide full specs for the fasteners they supply.

 

[PUSHIN]

one would *HOPE that they can provide specs for their fasteners, they bloody should anyway lol, as soon as i drop the auto trans i'll pump in there and have a chat to them, my first question will be about the strength of their cap screws, from what i can gather from what I've read, anything that is sold as a 'hex cap screw' pretty much has to be what you've spoken of, with the very high tensile. (read crap on wiki stating a law about it after cheap knockoffs, etc, wasn't specific though) but my last few experiences with them have convinced me to quiz them on the subject a little before going through with it. now to deal with transmission fluid lines. flare spanner didn't work, so cutting sounds good.

Cheers again for the help mate I really do appreciate it!