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Well Done Alan Joyce - BALLSY!

Reaper

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It will be interesting to see if they reveal the settlement terms and which side "won".

If you are talking about the FWA hearing then I'm pretty sure it's a matter of public record. No idea where you would go to find it though.

QANTAS has already 'won'. No more industrial action allowed - means business won't be interrupted.

Funnily enough it's Juliar Killrudd that lost the most out of this as more and more information comes to light that she could have ended the disruptions and forced the dispute into resolution a LOT sooner and WITHOUT the entire fleet being grounded.

Not exactly. It puts a stop on industrial action from both sides for 21 days. If significant progress isn't made in negotiations at that time FWA can

a/ do nothing
b/ extend the 21 days for another 3 weeks
c/ force all parties into binding mediation (most likely in conjunction with b/)

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Crisis63

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Bargain basement prices? The top of the range Pontiac GTO which was pretty much an SSV (with extras the SSV doesn't have like TPM!) sold for less than $40,000 USD. We do NOT have bargain basement prices.

E-Series Mercs sell for LESS in Germany than the prices we pay for Commodores!!! But we're fooled into believing they're a prestige car that should cost more than $100,000???

Wake up!
Oh dear… Aside from your claim not being sustainable as far as I can find (base model E Series 4cyl with 16” wheels @ current exchange rate in Germany is around $55,000 in Germany. Get a nice SSV here for that), ever heard the term economies of scale?
Mercedes sell around a million cars per year worldwide, 300,000 domestically. Holden sell about 45,000 and export maybe 20-30,000 pa. Basic BMWs and Mercs are ridiculously over priced here because of the snob appeal.
And while it may be argued we still pay a premium for our cars that is an entirely different matter to what I am getting at. What you get for your money relative to what you did in the 70s for example, there is no comparison. The basic Kingswood cost 60% of the average wage in 1970 the current VE costs 70% now. Compare what those cars have as standard features let alone the performance, safety and reliability.

2010 Mercedes-Benz E-Class German Price List - AutoSpies Auto News
 

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An Omega is not anywhere near 70% of the average wage! Comparing it to "basic Kingswood" you have to use the Omega.
 

minux

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What is “the right thing”. Unions have always needed political influence. Without them you would have the unfair dismissal laws ultra conservative governments try to force on us.

You mean laws that allow a company owner to decide who does and who does not work for them? How is it unfair to have this right? Every company should have a free right to dismiss anyone they like at any time for whatever reason.
 

Crisis63

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You mean laws that allow a company owner to decide who does and who does not work for them? How is it unfair to have this right?
If they could exercise their right fairly I would agree. Unfortunately your little fantasy land where people, be they managers or employees, are honest, fair, ethical, not entirely selfish, vindictive, jealous or self absorbed does not exist. Given that sad fact companies have to be forced to act fairly.
Every company should have a free right to dismiss anyone they like at any time for whatever reason.
See? That mentality is exactly the reason they need to be controlled.
 

Rufys

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Every company should have a free right to dismiss anyone they like at any time for whatever reason.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

See? That mentality is exactly the reason they need to be controlled.

WTF are you smoking??? If something is MINE, I want CONTROL of it. If I don't like the way someone dresses or presents themselves in my business when they're on MY time and representing MY business and they don't want to comply with how I want them to present themselves, why can't I show them the door? If they're not performing at the standard required, why can't I show them the door?

Why the hell do you think it's fair that company owners/managers can't control what happens within their company?

It would be the same as someone dictating to you as to how you run your household. How would you feel about that?
 

minux

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See? That mentality is exactly the reason they need to be controlled.

Why? I am currently looking to put someone on. If i do not like them for personal reason or for work ethic reasons why should I not be able to say "it isn't working, find something else"? It is my money paying for this person, it is my business on the line...whyt hen should I not have the right to give marching orders as I see fit?

Since when did jobs become rights? This is why our workforce is becoming so unproductive, we allow even the dopiest of people so many warnings before they can be dismissed and even then FWA steps in and re-instates them.

Fair Work Australia reinstates sacked worker despite safety breaches, cites employees poor job prospects
 

Crisis63

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An Omega is not anywhere near 70% of the average wage! Comparing it to "basic Kingswood" you have to use the Omega.
Actually you are right. The figure I had for 2010 average wages was $57,000 and it appears it is more like $68,000.
Wages / Salaries Australia


Average wage 2010 - $68,000
Omega 2010 - $40,000
58% of average wage

Average wage 1970 - $4000 pa
Kingswood 1970 - $2400
60% of average wage

So for 2% less of the average wage we have cars which are much better.
Cars are effectively cheaper and better than they ever were. ;-)
 

Crisis63

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Why? I am currently looking to put someone on. If i do not like them for personal reason or for work ethic reasons why should I not be able to say "it isn't working, find something else"? It is my money paying for this person, it is my business on the line...whyt hen should I not have the right to give marching orders as I see fit?
what if its you who is the cockhead? What if you are the "problem"?That’s all fine if its your business and your money. To a point. Of course the consequences go further that just you though. You have a finacial responsibility to your creditors and other employees who you may “like” and who may suffer for your inability to act professionally. But in a larger organisation where you are merely the manager or administrator your owner or owners would surely like to believe you can act professionally toward employees and not personally?


Since when did jobs become rights? This is why our workforce is becoming so unproductive,
Explain. With facts in comparison to other similar countries as ours. These facts may not include ridiculous biased anecdotes.

we allow even the dopiest of people so many warnings before they can be dismissed and even then FWA steps in and re-instates them.
So many warnings?!!”

Employer groups are furious with Fair Work Australia's decision to order the reinstatement of a worker who was sacked because of "serious misconduct" relating to a health and safety breach, because of his family circumstances, length of service and poor job prospects.
The case involves Paul Quinlivan, an employee at Norske Skog Paper Mills in Albury, who was dismissed in September last year after repeatedly removing his safety glasses while cleaning a piece of machinery during a plant shutdown.


Removing safety glasses is serious misconduct is it? What is repeatedly? 2, 3, 1012 times? Who managed him? What training did he have? Did his line manager “not like (him) for personal reasons"?

"What is the employer supposed to do? Is this decision suggesting that prior to terminating an employee it is required to take into account the personal circumstances of an employee, their family situation and their job prospects?

There’s an idea! Having some kind of concern or value for your employees. Especially given their long service record as it appears in this case. Given the period of service (conveniently left out by this obviously employer biased little gem of a site) One would have to ask what other examples of "serious misconduct" had this employee demonstrated? Perhaps the lack of any may have also contributed toward the commissions decision the dismissal was unfair?

Andrew Douglas of Douglas Workplace and Litigation says the case should serve as a reminder to employees that they must consider personal circumstances when moving towards a termination.
He says the main personal circumstances include the employees' employment history (specifically previous warnings or breaches of company policy),
For example!!

But does this mean that employers are stuck with underperforming workers, just because they are long-serving or have poor future job prospects?
Douglas says no, but says employers must be able to show that the dismissal is the result of careful performance management, including documented plans to attempt to help a worker improve.


Not just because someone didnt like him...

Vitale also says the case underlines the need for employers to warn workers that they can face dismissal for safety breaches.

So while it may be convenient to take this isolated example on face value as an example of “why our workforce is becoming so unproductive” there are a few glaring omissions and inconstancies that would probably have been fleshed out in a less biased publication.
 
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