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after installing 69mmTB

bigneilsen

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the car is driving different. vt I v6

its changing gears at much a lower rpm then before installation when the same amount of throttle is given.

for example: leaving lights normally it would change gear 2700rpm give or take. but now with the same amount of throttle its chaging at 2000rpm.

also i need to almost flat foot it to get the thing to downshift for decent excelleration.

im not complaining to much its saving me heaps more fuel, but sometimes i do want it to downshift easier for better exceleration. will i need to get a tune? i thought a tune was not nessacary for this mod?

i did reset the computer, altho how precise do you have to be.
i disconected the bat for about 50seconds, and held the car at 2100rpm for about 1min
 

greenfoam

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It's because the ratio between the tps and the amount of air in the engine has changed
 

MACE

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the car is driving different. vt I v6

its changing gears at much a lower rpm then before installation when the same amount of throttle is given.

for example: leaving lights normally it would change gear 2700rpm give or take. but now with the same amount of throttle its chaging at 2000rpm.

also i need to almost flat foot it to get the thing to downshift for decent excelleration.

im not complaining to much its saving me heaps more fuel, but sometimes i do want it to downshift easier for better exceleration. will i need to get a tune? i thought a tune was not nessacary for this mod?

i did reset the computer, altho how precise do you have to be.
i disconected the bat for about 50seconds, and held the car at 2100rpm for about 1min

Did you install the the restrictor as per the fitting instructions? As it does help in regards to shifting characteristics

We normally have the fitting instructions online for some of our products (including this one) but it's being updated at the moment. Should be back online tomorrow but will still be subject to a few revisions over the coming weeks months etc.

This aside though and assuming that everything has been installed correctly, and you're still not comfortable with the shifting characteristics, then you can install a shift kit (preferably one of these 4L60e Single Stage Shift Kit - $70.00 : Shiftkits Australia, Performance Shift Kits and Vehicle Electronics as you can switch it on or off) or we can supply you with a memcal to suit. Having said this though even the manifold insulators and plenum spacers help out in this regard as well.

There are more technical detail about these throttle bodies here https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/v6-peformance-parts.96810/ but just to give you a snap shot as to what happens when installing a larger throttle on a v6

Ok just to clear a few things up with larger throttle bodies.

Installing a larger throttle body on a VN-VR will not change the shifting characteristics on an auto.

This is because the characteristics of the standard vs aftermarket throttle bodies are the same compared. What I mean that per given throttle angle each one will give the same air flow characteristics, and will be in close proportion to each other. Yes the larger throttle body will definitely be able to flow more air overall then the factory item, however because the characteristics are similar the computer doesn’t have a problem.

However on the ecotec throttle bodies this isn’t the case as this characteristic is different when you compare the standard throttle body to an aftermarket one. The is because the factory item has “humps” inside to archive a desired throttle characteristic (dulling throttle response). Where as the after market item machine these humps right out which are a restriction, however this results in new flow characteristic that are not in proportion with each other especially under light load where the difference is greatest. As a result the computer may get caught out at times because of it depending on your driving style. If you have the line pressures in your auto increases then it won’t be a problem.

We’ve made improvements in this area through supplying things like the restrictor etc. In regards to the throttle bodies we sell, many people are happy with them small number though feel that there is room for improvement in this area. In which case we can now supply memcals to suit which sorts it out completely.

Hope this clears up a few things.

Cheers
Steve
 

delcowizzid

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like greenfoam said your making power with less throttle which makes it change early due to the TPS % controlling shifts will be down on trans pressure as well with it reading to low simple fix get a tune all sorted
 

bigneilsen

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thanks for response.
already have stage 2 shift kit with corvette servo
yes i installed the restirctor. (that was such a bitch to get in without dropping it haha)

what would this memcal do? like how does it change the computer?
how do the insulaters help out? cos they were on the cards for next couple of mods.(which one would you recomend)

is what greenfoam and delco... said correct MACE? i thought that only the vs had problems with the computer.
 

greenfoam

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It's not a problem, its just obvious, you are opening the throttle more but the tps is staying the same
 

FirstVR_JC

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Hey bignielsen, It is thought that the VN to VR would escape problems with a bigger throttle body... which isnt the case. I had the same issues with my VR when i installed the 70mm T/B... I ended up putting the standard T/B back on ..... you will need a tune to suit. I havent got a tune yet but one day i may persist in a mod that is currently unnessasary for my car as it is and ask the expert tuners on here for a tuned memcal and whack the 70mm back on.
 

MACE

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thanks for response.
already have stage 2 shift kit with corvette servo
yes i installed the restirctor. (that was such a bitch to get in without dropping it haha)

what would this memcal do? like how does it change the computer?
how do the insulaters help out? cos they were on the cards for next couple of mods.(which one would you recomend)

is what greenfoam and delco... said correct MACE? i thought that only the vs had problems with the computer.

“thanks for response.
already have stage 2 shift kit with corvette servo
yes i installed the restirctor. (that was such a bitch to get in without dropping it haha)”

Has the general line pressure been increased though? They can easily do this by adjusting the force motors in the valve body when the oil pan is off. In saying this though I much prefer this mod 4L60e Single Stage Shift Kit - $70.00 : Shiftkits Australia, Performance Shift Kits and Vehicle Electronics as you have the option of being able to switch it off or on.

“what would this memcal do? like how does it change the computer?”
Would change the line pressure and shift points


“how do the insulaters help out? cos they were on the cards for next couple of mods.(which one would you recomend)”

The plenum spacer does dull the response of the throttle body (as it requires more time to fill up the plenum) similar to what the factory humps in the throttle body do, dull the response throttle body. In saying this though it still does improve overall performance

“is what greenfoam and delco... said correct MACE?
What they are saying is accurate but, I’ve gone into that into greater detailed in the quoted text a few posts back (which can be found here https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/v6-peformance-parts.96810/)

Ok just to clear a few things up with larger throttle bodies.
Installing a larger throttle body on a VN-VR will not change the shifting characteristics on an auto.

This is because the characteristics of the standard vs aftermarket throttle bodies are the same compared. What I mean that per given throttle angle each one will give the same air flow characteristics, and will be in close proportion to each other. Yes the larger throttle body will definitely be able to flow more air overall then the factory item, however because the characteristics are similar the computer doesn’t have a problem.

However on the ecotec throttle bodies this isn’t the case as this characteristic is different when you compare the standard throttle body to an aftermarket one. The is because the factory item has “humps” inside to archive a desired throttle characteristic (dulling throttle response). Where as the after market item machine these humps right out which are a restriction, however this results in new flow characteristic that are not in proportion with each other especially under light load where the difference is greatest. As a result the computer may get caught out at times because of it depending on your driving style. If you have the line pressures in your auto increases then it won’t be a problem.

We’ve made improvements in this area through supplying things like the restrictor etc. In regards to the throttle bodies we sell, many people are happy with them small number though feel that there is room for improvement in this area. In which case we can now supply memcals to suit which sorts it out completely.

Hope this clears up a few things.

Cheers
Steve

i thought that only the vs had problems with the computer.”
The VS computers are more inclined to require a tune given the computing power they have (compared to a VT-on computer), making them less adaptable to larger throttle bodies etc.

On the note of the better fuel economy it would also be reflected by overall power increase (contrary to what some people may speculate) as reflected by a slightly higher air fuel ratio. Meaning more air is entering the engine even at wide open throttle.
 
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Tsunamix

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You just need a more aggressive tune :) Foamy did one for me. Good Value. I have the same gearbox mods and it's a sweet drive now.
 

MACE

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Hey bignielsen, It is thought that the VN to VR would escape problems with a bigger throttle body... which isnt the case. I had the same issues with my VR when i installed the 70mm T/B... I ended up putting the standard T/B back on ..... you will need a tune to suit. I havent got a tune yet but one day i may persist in a mod that is currently unnessasary for my car as it is and ask the expert tuners on here for a tuned memcal and whack the 70mm back on.

The shifting characteristics on the VN-VR V6's DON'T change when running a larger throttle body as the flow characteristics don't significantly change per throttle position, unlike a ported ecotec one. Problems like this will most often arise if you have an engine fault code or an aftermarket memcal which has not been calibrated to suit the larger throttle body. The factory memcal in this case is perfectly fine. So did you have a fault code come up when running our larger throttle body or are you running a different memcal from factory?
 
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