Has anyone installed “Safebrake” braided brake lines?

[Skylarking]

Yes, it's the same ruling where brake line fittings must be crimped regardless of the hose material. There's additional hose material standards in ADR 42/04 which the braided Teflon hose complies.

The point I was making is that todays freely available ADR’s are gutted placeholders that reference documents from other jurisdictions (that may not be so openly available)…

The entirety of what brake specific info specified within ADR 42, which supersedes the old ADR 7 is as follows:

ADR 42/00 states

42.13. BRAKE TUBING AND BRAKE HOSE​

Air or vacuum brake tubing and air and vacuum brake hose, flexible and hydraulic power hose between the ‘Brake Power Unit 31/00’ or ‘Brake Power Unit 35/00’ and the master cylinder or its equivalent (and thus not subject to ADR 7/... “Hydraulic Brake Hoses”) must conform to BSS, SAE, or other ‘Approved’ standards specified for air brake tubing or hose or vacuum brake tubing or hose or hydraulic power tubing or hose and be so fitted to the vehicle as to prevent chafing, kinking or other mechanical damage under normal motion of the parts to which they are attached.​

ADR 42/04 states

15. BRAKE TUBING AND BRAKE HOSE​

​

Flexible hydraulic brake hoses, air or vacuum brake tubing and air and vacuum hose, flexible and hydraulic power hose between the ‘Brake Power Unit 31/00’ or ‘Brake Power Unit 35/00’ and the master cylinder or its equivalent must conform to SAA, SAE, BS, JIS, DIN, ISO or ECE Standards, or FMVSS 106 Brake Hoses, specified for flexible brake hoses, air brake tubing or hose or vacuum brake tubing or hose or hydraulic power tubing or hose and be fitted to the vehicle as to prevent chafing, kinking or other mechanical damage under normal motion of the parts to which they are attached.​

Thats it for our ADR’s mentioning stuff about brakes and their construction and nowhere here does it make any mention of crimping or screw fittings…

As I said, I haven’t gone down the rabbit hole but I suspect FMVSS 106 does specify construction methods (as probably others also do).

Whatever the case, you’d expect braided lines with crimp fittings that meet our ADR should still be safe for road use (putting aside the uncertainty of a replacement schedule). However I do take your point that $$ rule and marketing blurbs are full of excrement

 

[dassaur]

The point I was making is that todays freely available ADR’s are gutted placeholders that reference documents from other jurisdictions (that may not be so openly available)…

The entirety of what brake specific info specified within ADR 42, which supersedes the old ADR 7 is as follows:

ADR 42/00 states

42.13. BRAKE TUBING AND BRAKE HOSE​

Air or vacuum brake tubing and air and vacuum brake hose, flexible and hydraulic power hose between the ‘Brake Power Unit 31/00’ or ‘Brake Power Unit 35/00’ and the master cylinder or its equivalent (and thus not subject to ADR 7/... “Hydraulic Brake Hoses”) must conform to BSS, SAE, or other ‘Approved’ standards specified for air brake tubing or hose or vacuum brake tubing or hose or hydraulic power tubing or hose and be so fitted to the vehicle as to prevent chafing, kinking or other mechanical damage under normal motion of the parts to which they are attached.​

ADR 42/04 states

15. BRAKE TUBING AND BRAKE HOSE​

​

Flexible hydraulic brake hoses, air or vacuum brake tubing and air and vacuum hose, flexible and hydraulic power hose between the ‘Brake Power Unit 31/00’ or ‘Brake Power Unit 35/00’ and the master cylinder or its equivalent must conform to SAA, SAE, BS, JIS, DIN, ISO or ECE Standards, or FMVSS 106 Brake Hoses, specified for flexible brake hoses, air brake tubing or hose or vacuum brake tubing or hose or hydraulic power tubing or hose and be fitted to the vehicle as to prevent chafing, kinking or other mechanical damage under normal motion of the parts to which they are attached.​

Thats it for our ADR’s mentioning stuff about brakes and their construction and nowhere here does it make any mention of crimping or screw fittings…

As I said, I haven’t gone down the rabbit hole but I suspect FMVSS 106 does specify construction methods (as probably others also do).

Whatever the case, you’d expect braided lines with crimp fittings that meet our ADR should still be safe for road use (putting aside the uncertainty of a replacement schedule). However I do take your point that $$ rule over and marketing blurbs are full of excrement

S5, FMVSS 106
Requirements—hydraulic brake hose, brake hose assemblies, and brake hose end fittings.

S5.1 Construction.
(a) Each hydraulic brake hose assembly shall have permanently attached brake hose end fittings which are attached by deformation of the fitting about the hose by crimping or swaging.

 

[Skylarking]

S5, FMVSS 106
Requirements—hydraulic brake hose, brake hose assemblies, and brake hose end fittings.

S5.1 Construction.
(a) Each hydraulic brake hose assembly shall have permanently attached brake hose end fittings which are attached by deformation of the fitting about the hose by crimping or swaging.

Thanks Alice, that makes it rather clear for those who didn’t go down the rabbit hole

 

[vc commodore]

Been thinking about screw in brake lines and why the rego authorities might be real resistant in approving them.

If they go together like the oil style oil pressure gauges with the plastic tubes or like braided hoses for water, any idiot doing them would be cause for concern....Having them fail would be more than prevelant, where as crimped ones would require a "specialist tool" to do them and joe blow that works out of his garage wouldn't spend the cash to buy a crimper, which then puts this into the hands of others.

 

[vc commodore]

Haven’t you heard “resistance is futile” (where gst on enthusiast dollars can be had)

More the case, S.A authorities are nannies and resist change from factory with a passion

 

[RevNev]

The crimp fittings on braide for street use can't be as bad as you are making out..

Braided brake lines have no purpose on a road car as the brake temperatures are never reached to use the braided line advantages. Modification rule # 1: Don't fix what's not broken, rubber brake hoses as fitted to 99.999% of motor vehicles work just fine!

When crimped fitting braided brake line kits came on stream for road cars, many used them for track and race cars as they're available and simply bolt on. The first failure I saw was a VZ road car on a track day at Mallala after fitting a braided brake line kit from OEM rubber, the brake pedal was low and spongy after 2 laps. Both front braided line fittings were leaking at the crimp, ripper kit that one!!!

Crimped fitting integrity relies on compressibility of the material it's crimped onto. How does the "compressibility" of rubber compare with braid covered Teflon, and your own common sense should answer the question!!

The difference with (screw on) compression fittings not only grip the inner Teflon line radially, but also longitudinally, 2 compression forces vs 1 of a crimped fitting. The compression fitting also grips the outer braid in a flare like fashion vs the crimped fitting doesn't grip the braid at all. Performance wise, compression fittings done properly, don't use banjo connections and provide an unrestricted fluid path to the calipers.

 

[RevNev]

Been thinking about screw in brake lines and why the rego authorities might be real resistant in approving them.

If they go together like the oil style oil pressure gauges with the plastic tubes or like braided hoses for water, any idiot doing them would be cause for concern....Having them fail would be more than prevelant, where as crimped ones would require a "specialist tool" to do them and joe blow that works out of his garage wouldn't spend the cash to buy a crimper, which then puts this into the hands of others.

Then Joe Blow drops the caliper and dangles it off the braided line a few times changing brake pads where a crimped rubber brake line has far more resilience. Some think it's ok to dangle a caliper off a braided line because it's stronger than rubber!

 

[vc commodore]

Braided brake lines have no purpose on a road car as the brake temperatures are never reached to use the braided line advantages. Modification rule # 1: Don't fix what's not broken, rubber brake hoses as fitted to 99.999% of motor vehicles work just fine!

When crimped fitting braided brake line kits came on stream for road cars, many used them for track and race cars as they're available and simply bolt on. The first failure I saw was a VZ road car on a track day at Mallala after fitting a braided brake line kit from OEM rubber, the brake pedal was low and spongy after 2 laps. Both front braided line fittings were leaking at the crimp, ripper kit that one!!!

Crimped fitting integrity relies on compressibility of the material it's crimped onto. How does the "compressibility" of rubber compare with braid covered Teflon, and your own common sense should answer the question!!

The difference with (screw on) compression fittings not only grip the inner Teflon line radially, but also longitudinally, 2 compression forces vs 1 of a crimped fitting. The compression fitting also grips the outer braid in a flare like fashion vs the crimped fitting doesn't grip the braid at all. Performance wise, compression fittings done properly, don't use banjo connections and provide an unrestricted fluid path to the calipers.

My purpose for fitting crimped braided lines was availability for the brake conversion I did....I wasn't running with an adaptor, where the possibility of a leak occurring with 2 seperate joins was greater than 1....The fact the brakes felt better was a bonus....And 2ndly, the car isn't tracked and after 5 odd years, no sign of failure says it's a double bonus...

So you can get the don't fix wasn't isn't broken portion out of the equasion with regards to why I did it....As for others doing it, they are obviously happy....

I have also mentioned the race cars I have dealt with over the years (first being a Ferrari back in 1995, that was driven from Adelaide to Tassie to compete in the Targa Tasmania...It didn't get driven back because it dropped a valve.) that have run crimped brake fittings and they haven't failed....And this differs from your experiences..

As for screw in fittings....If they are so bloody terrific like you are banging on about, some company would go through the headache to get them certified for general purpose use, rather than just your intended track use....That's partly how they got crimped fittings certified....

I offered what I thought was a reasonable excuse why they wouldn't be, but of course you have gone on your own merry way on the race shite and totally missed or ignored it.....

 

[vc commodore]

Then Joe Blow drops the caliper and dangles it off the braided line a few times changing brake pads where a crimped rubber brake line has far more resilience. Some think it's ok to dangle a caliper off a braided line because it's stronger than rubber!

I have never ever seen it wise to dangle a brake caliper from any sort of brake line...Give a rats if it's braide or factory rubber.....The potential for failure to too great in my eyes to even consider it

 

[losh1971]

I fit braided lines because it improves my brakes. It's a no brainer for me anymore. Every time I fit them my brakes work better and I'm talking DDs.