JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Calaber]

in general, public servants, of whom i'm one, aren't well paid compared to the private sector. while we do get higher increases during low CPI (or LPI) periods, we don't get higher ones when LPI increases. so you're only telling half the story.

my experience is that the problem isn't with highly paid public servants, but lowly paid ones who don't want a real job and are just leeching off the public. the highly paid ones usually know what they're doing and get stuff done.

Sorry Jules, but after being a public servant for over 38 years, finishing up in a managerial position, I don't agree. I don't know which state you reside in, but NSW public servants have been very well paid for years and their rises, at all levels, have been excessive on many occasions. (I was who received those pay rises so I can speak from experience.) I accept that there is a higher remuneration to senior executives in private enterprise, but they aren't being paid from public taxes and they don't have to provide a service to the community in return for their pay.

I also don't agree with your statement that lower paid staff are leeches. My staff received good salaries, though considerably less than me. They worked hard over long hours, (don't laugh, many public servants work more than their prescribed hours for no additional pay, because of flexible working hour agreements) but their pay was generous compared to similar jobs in private enterprise in the local area.

 

[Calaber]

the views of many posters here on tax are overly simplistic. look at greece, a country where people have taken a strong stand on tax - they just don't pay it. the govt over there has taken a soft line and not chased them up. instead, they have borrowed money to run the country. what could go wrong? oh.. they're now broke and can't get any more credit. the country is royally @$%^d.

maybe there's more to it than just "i doh'wanna a new tax"?

Maybe they'd like their existing taxes to be more wisely spent? Maybe they'd prefer that Swan doesn't plan to raise the limit on government debt from $200 billion to $250 billion, as he has just done, having already raised it from $75 biiion to $200 billion during the GFC?

Tell us all, because there are a lot of us here who would just love to know. Where does it end?

 

[jules]

Maybe they'd like their existing taxes to be more wisely spent? Maybe they'd prefer that Swan doesn't plan to raise the limit on government debt from $200 billion to $250 billion, as he has just done, having already raised it from $75 biiion to $200 billion during the GFC?

Tell us all, because there are a lot of us here who would just love to know. Where does it end?

everyone wants their taxes to be spent 'more wisely', who wouldn't? and for govt debt to be lowered. those are rhetorical questions that apply no matter how well or poorly a govt is managing the economy.

the bottom line is, the problem in greece wasn't that govt was wasting the money - it wasn't receiving it in the first place. greeks thought the same thing as many people here - that denying the govt taxes was a good thing, as the govt would just waste it. that hasn't worked out real well for them.

 

[Calaber]

everyone wants their taxes to be spent 'more wisely', who wouldn't? and for govt debt to be lowered. those are rhetorical questions that apply no matter how well or poorly a govt is managing the economy.

the bottom line is, the problem in greece wasn't that govt was wasting the money - it wasn't receiving it in the first place. greeks thought the same thing as many people here - that denying the govt taxes was a good thing, as the govt would just waste it. that hasn't worked out real well for them.

I really don't give a continental about the Greek problem - I was asking you about OUR problem. You have failed to answer that question, but that's ok, because I doubt that even Swan has a clue about that one.

 

[jules]

I really don't give a continental about the Greek problem - I was asking you about OUR problem. You have failed to answer that question, but that's ok, because I doubt that even Swan has a clue about that one.

in comparison to almost all other countries, Australia enjoys remarkably low debt and good governance. we are so much better off than almost everyone else in the world, it's hard to take most of the hysterical complaints against the Labor (or Liberal) govt seriously.

it's like arguing that the top-of-the-ladder AFL or NRL footy side wouldn't have a clue how to play the game.

 

[Reaper]

the views of many posters here on tax are overly simplistic. look at greece, a country where people have taken a strong stand on tax - they just don't pay it. the govt over there has taken a soft line and not chased them up. instead, they have borrowed money to run the country. what could go wrong? oh.. they're now broke and can't get any more credit. the country is royally @$%^d.

maybe there's more to it than just "i doh'wanna a new tax"?

I don't think anybody is advocating a soft line on payment of taxes. Try owing money to the ATO and see what happens - they are *very* proactive in recovering debts, not to mention the interest which ticks over from day 1.

If you are including me in that "simplistic view" of taxation then you are very mistaken. I do strongly object to being arse raped by Govco at every opportunity to pay for their incompetence. *Everywhere* you look there are examples of it and this attitude of sticking their hand into the taxpayers wallet when the inevitable happens just has to stop. If your best argument is that I have a simplistic view then you are fast running out of straws.

everyone wants their taxes to be spent 'more wisely', who wouldn't? and for govt debt to be lowered. those are rhetorical questions that apply no matter how well or poorly a govt is managing the economy.

the bottom line is, the problem in greece wasn't that govt was wasting the money - it wasn't receiving it in the first place. greeks thought the same thing as many people here - that denying the govt taxes was a good thing, as the govt would just waste it. that hasn't worked out real well for them.

WTF has Greece got to do with Wayne Swan trying to pickpocket me at every opportunity?

in comparison to almost all other countries, Australia enjoys remarkably low debt and good governance. we are so much better off than almost everyone else in the world, it's hard to take most of the hysterical complaints against the Labor (or Liberal) govt seriously.

If our current federal government is an example of one of the better in the world then no wonder they are screwed. :rofl:

it's like arguing that the top-of-the-ladder AFL or NRL footy side wouldn't have a clue how to play the game.

WTF????

Reaper

 

[jules]

WTF has Greece got to do with Wayne Swan trying to pickpocket me at every opportunity?

quite a lot - the attitude of greeks has been very similar to the one you posted - that the govt is raping them with taxes to waste on unnecessary stuff. you need to be careful what you wish for - you may just get it. don't say you weren't warned.

 

[Reaper]

the views of many posters here on tax are overly simplistic. look at greece, a country where people have taken a strong stand on tax - they just don't pay it. the govt over there has taken a soft line and not chased them up. instead, they have borrowed money to run the country. what could go wrong? oh.. they're now broke and can't get any more credit. the country is royally @$%^d.

maybe there's more to it than just "i doh'wanna a new tax"?

quite a lot - the attitude of greeks has been very similar to the one you posted - that the govt is raping them with taxes to waste on unnecessary stuff. you need to be careful what you wish for - you may just get it. don't say you weren't warned.

What a load of hogwash. I pay every cent of tax that I'm obligated to pay but not a cent more. The ATO have no problem collecting their tax from me and are very proactive in Australia in recovering owed monies. It has nothing what so ever to do with Greece which you say have taken a soft line and not chased up defaulters. Where have I ever advocated such a thing? It would appear you are fresh out of reasoned argument to you have resorted to making crap up.

Reaper

 

[jules]

It has nothing what so ever to do with Greece which you say have taken a soft line and not chased up defaulters. Where have I ever advocated such a thing?

the point is that if govts are just collecting taxes to waste on inefficient spending, the economy wouldn't go down the gurgler if they were denied the tax in the first place. the proof is in the pudding. the greeks called their govt's bluff and they now behold the truth - they did need to be 'ass raped' after all.

it's possible that australian taxes are being wasted and that the greek ones were not, but i think that would be a highly optimistic thing to believe. perhaps you should consider the possibility that the truth is hiding in plain sight - govts do need these taxes (including sometimes the ones you disagree with) to help run the country and help you put food on your table.

 

[Reaper]

the point is that if govts are just collecting taxes to waste on inefficient spending, the economy wouldn't go down the gurgler if they were denied the tax in the first place. the proof is in the pudding. the greeks called their govt's bluff and they now behold the truth - they did need to be 'ass raped' after all.

it's possible that australian taxes are being wasted and that the greek ones were not, but i think that would be a highly optimistic thing to believe. perhaps you should consider the possibility that the truth is hiding in plain sight - govts do need these taxes (including sometimes the ones you disagree with) to help run the country and help you put food on your table.

But you were saying that the Greek government were lax in collecting taxes to begin with. I have no idea if they wasted what little they did collect at all. But it's blatantly clear that much of Europe has been living well beyond their means for many years.

My issue is stuff like the stupid flood levy. Why should the rest of Australia have to pay for the under insurance of the QLD state government??? IMO Qld should pay for it. I could go on about any number of arse rapings and feeble wealth redistribution schemes of our current government.

Reaper