JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Reaper]

Reap

That may be true but ultimately, the Government is responsible for the actions of its employees. This is one issue where Labor is probably in a more difficult position that the Coalition because it happened on their watch. Abbott has just inherited another problem created during the Labor term in office.

I would love to know how the Rudd or Gillard governments would have handled this thing if it had blown up during their term in office.

Are you saying we shouldn't be keeping tabs on what countries relevant to us are doing by methods that include spying? To me - Indonesia should HTFU. Have they ever apologised for anything? You are old enough to remember this Balibo Five - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to which Indonesia still have never apologised. Just one example of a litany of incidents involving their government over the decades.

 

[gossie]

And I'm old enough to remember all the problems with them in the mid 1960s. It was close to war from memory. They really don't like us and never will.

 

[Calaber]

Are you saying we shouldn't be keeping tabs on what countries relevant to us are doing by methods that include spying? To me - Indonesia should HTFU. Have they ever apologised for anything? You are old enough to remember this Balibo Five - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to which Indonesia still have never apologised. Just one example of a litany of incidents involving their government over the decades.

No, I'm not saying anything of the sort. I think we HAVE to know what is going on over there and knowing what their leader's thinking is a major part of that knowledge. My point is simply that Labor is probably very fortunate that they were booted out a few weeks back. Whilst they are in a bind at present, it would have been much harder for them if they had still been in power. It is just unfortunate for Abbott, at a time when cooperation with Indonesia is so important, and was just getting underway with boats, that this happenend.

I'm old enough to remember well back past Balibo, which was only 1975. I can think back to the early 60's when relations between our two countries was anything buy friendly when Sukarno was President. He was a most difficult neighbouring leader for Menzies to deal with. (I think he was difficult for just about anybody to deal with, actually.) I have said in earlier posts that I don't trust Indonesia. I think the two nations are so dissimilar that complete trust and empathy can never be found. Just on a religious basis alone, we can never be completely comfortable with each other. One nation is predominantly Christian, the other is the largest Muslim population on earth. Can't see them ever really trusting each other comfortably, can you?

On a different tack, it is very interesting to see how the leaders of the government and opposition have handled this event so far and Abbott's far more extensive political experience than either Shorten or Plibersek is very obvious. Abbott is calm and collected, not emotive, not making rash statements, and stating quite candidly how he will respond to the letter from the Indonesian PM. Shorten initially indicated he though Abbott should follow Obama's example and apologise, whilst his goofy deputy sounded off about Abbott's statements leading up to the election about the boat people problem and the angst they would have caused the Indonesians, whilst conveniently overlooking what her government had done to offend them. The lack of political and experience and diplomacy of those two, compared to Abbott, is clear to see. I think we are extremely fortunate to have his experience at the helm right now in what will doubtless be our most awkward and significant diplomatic problem for years.

 

[SpaceYam]

It's only awkward that we got caught.

If Indonesia got caught we'd just get "LOL, soz, won't do it again (tee hee hee)"

I don't trust Indonesia an inch, and I have never understood since I was in high school why so many people wanted to go on holidays over there.

You would think that people would take the hint after all the rumours we hear about how people will sell you drugs and then dob you in to the cops over there, and other such things! Surely that in itself is a sign that we're actually not welcome?

 

[gopher]

WTF is this ****?
and stealing part of the value of our homes as well?
No Cookies | The Courier-Mail

 

[gossie]

WTF is this ****?
and stealing part of the value of our homes as well?
No Cookies | The Courier-Mail

If you mean have the retirement age at 70, then yes without doubt it WILL happen in the future.
I would suggest in the next ten years it may happen, and why not may I ask for those foolish enough not to work smart and have plenty of super. to retire with when they wish to.

We are living much longer and our governments can simply NOT pay people for twenty years of doing nothing with such a small number of people actually paying tax......FWIW if you don't know it's about 1/2 or less of the number of people living in Australia.

Eventually there will be NO old age pension as such, as you will be expected to pull your weight in a job, pay your taxes and be in a good super. fund to fund your retirement........Fact of life.

 

[Reaper]

On a different tack, it is very interesting to see how the leaders of the government and opposition have handled this event so far and Abbott's far more extensive political experience than either Shorten or Plibersek is very obvious. Abbott is calm and collected, not emotive, not making rash statements, and stating quite candidly how he will respond to the letter from the Indonesian PM. Shorten initially indicated he though Abbott should follow Obama's example and apologise, whilst his goofy deputy sounded off about Abbott's statements leading up to the election about the boat people problem and the angst they would have caused the Indonesians, whilst conveniently overlooking what her government had done to offend them. The lack of political and experience and diplomacy of those two, compared to Abbott, is clear to see. I think we are extremely fortunate to have his experience at the helm right now in what will doubtless be our most awkward and significant diplomatic problem for years.

Well on that we have agreement. Some of the stuff I've seen from supposed "experts" is just amazing.

WTF is this ****?
and stealing part of the value of our homes as well?
No Cookies | The Courier-Mail

I strongly disagree with the notion of Govco taking an equity stake in peoples houses in return for services. Either govco supplies them or they don't. On the broader issue, as much as we dislike the idea, as the average life expectation increases then it naturally follows that the age pension must follow.

 

[minux]

WTF is this ****?
and stealing part of the value of our homes as well?
No Cookies | The Courier-Mail

It is why there should be no restrictions on how much people can put into super prior to paying any tax on wages. Encourage people to support their own retirement through tax breaks, not discourage it through higher taxes ala previous ALP government.

 

[Calaber]

Last night during a brief news article, Gillard was speaking about the phone taps. She also believes that Australia should apologise, so to the member who thought she would be stronger than Rudd, your theory was wrong. She would have buckled under immediately the **** hit the fan. Another example of her outstanding judgement.

Has anybody been watching the series of interviews of Keating being conducted on the ABC at present by Kerry O'Brien? Two episodes so far, two to go. I've watched both and found them extremely interesting, because they present Keating in a more candid, less belligerent light. Yeah, yeah, I realise it's the ABC and they would ensure that the program made him look good but quite a few of his statements and comments regarding the Hawke Government, Keating's relationship with Hawke and Hayden and Keating's economic reforms, on last night's show, were very enlightening.

Evan a strong Coalition supporter like me can stand some education and enlightenment from the other side at times. I obviously voted to remove Keating in 1996, but this program does shed light on what went on behind the scenes and outlines more clearly, just what Keating's vision for this country was.

 

[Rufus®]

Last night during a brief news article, Gillard was speaking about the phone taps. She also believes that Australia should apologise, so to the member who thought she would be stronger than Rudd, your theory was wrong. She would have buckled under immediately the **** hit the fan. Another example of her outstanding judgement.

from an article i read yesterday:

Ms Gillard says it is not appropriate for her to comment on intelligence questions, but she endorsed the way United States president Barack Obama handled similar allegations that the US was spying on the German chancellor Angela Merkel.

"If he (Mr Obama) had been aware he wouldn't have authorised it, and he could certainly say for the future that it wouldn't happen again," she told CNN.

"And I think that that's an appropriate response from Australia to Indonesia at this very difficult time."

interesting that she has changed her story.