JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[shane_3800]

Builders are collapsing because of their own stupidity & greed. they accept the work, along with people's money, without having the resources or skills to complete a job. project management requires years of experience & training, but of course idiots with a year 10 education think they can save some money & do it themselves.

That is completely incorrect.
That is an ignorant point of view.

 

[Immortality]

That is such a futile argument.

Like I said, if you get the cleaner to run the company, they might make a profit, they will likely lose money.
I'm not referring to the company treading water, I'm talking about the CEO driving a profit increase.

There is no way in hell that employees are all going to just kick into gear and make the largest profit ever, you're completely delusional like most lefties.

The CEO drives profits.
You're just a rich hater, I'm not rich, but I don't hate people because they are, except for trust fund babies, they're a waste of space, and usually rude a holes.

I've seen overpaid MD's ruin a company in short order, short sighted, make the books look good this year but forgetting the long term plan so in subsequent years things turn to ****.

All CEO's like to think they drive profit but there are plenty that make mistakes and cost the company millions.

A great example is the former CEO of Fletchers in NZ, he put together a whole list of forward work with fixed cost pricing. Those decisions are costing Fletchers hundreds of millions of dollars a year long after he's been sent down the road but hey, I'm sure he looked good when he had a order book full of huge contracts back in the day.

CEO's along with the board set policy and guidance but it is the managers below who have to come up with the plans to turn those idea's into actual process to create that profit. It's nice to sit at the top and decide you are going to make X amount of sales a month and produce Y amount of product but if you read the market wrong than no matter how much **** you make you simply won't sell it.

And then.... Once again this lefty crap, you are a short sighted idiot who always falls back on this one pathetic argument when all your other arguments fail. You need to stop insulting people if you ever want people to take you seriously.

I think it was @Immortality who commented on the state of the building industry in Aus.

" 2349 construction firms have collapsed in the past year — with fears more may fall soon.

.....of the 8471 business collapses for 2023, almost 28 per cent were in the building and construction industry, according to data put out by the corporate regulator."

And Albo reckons he can more than double the historic rate of new home construction in this country.

My better half works in the building industry with very good insight into what is happening at a national level and also international.

It's because I believe I understand economics, I understand that in this world there will always be poor and rich.
Whereas you believe in some utopic future that is impossible, yet this attitude has always led to wars.

fixed it for ya.

 

[VS 5.0]

My better half works in the building industry

Snap !

Mine too.

It is the only industry she has worked in.

 

[VS 5.0]

I’m a bit sceptical of construction industry ‘collapses. It’s an industry that seems to be rife with phoenixing company activity. (Not that it is restricted to the construction industry).

Indeed, although I find it hard to believe that is the reason behind such numbers.

 

[chrisp]

Indeed, although I find it hard to believe that is the reason behind such numbers.

I’m only speculating, but I suspect part of the reason is the warranty that has to be offered on building work (7 years?).

Builders have to purchase an insurance to cover that warranty. When something goes wrong, the builder is the first port of call and is expected to provide the warranty work. If the consumer has issues contacting the builder, I think the next port of call is to the state building authority that tracks down the builder and tries to compel them to do the work. If the builder no longer exists, then the insurance kicks in.

So, I suspect, the modus operandi for a builder becomes… set up a company, build a few houses, close company and close off ongoing liability. Set up new company, …and repeat as often as needed.

The sad news is that some builders were not even buying the mandated insurance, so the end buyer was left high and dry.

A fairly classic case of privatise the profits and socialise the loses.

Maybe the increase the cost of materials is also driving them to ’go under’ (and later phoenix)?

 

[AirStrike]

That is completely incorrect.
That is an ignorant point of view.

He's never set foot on a construction site, what would he know.

 

[AirStrike]

Builders are collapsing because of their own stupidity & greed. they accept the work, along with people's money, without having the resources or skills to complete a job. project management requires years of experience & training, but of course idiots with a year 10 education think they can save some money & do it themselves.

Builders are collapsing because of fixed price contracts that can't be honoured due to what happened during covid to protect the weak like yourself.
Maybe we should just do all residential construction as cost plus, will solve the problem. Of course the bank probably won't lend you any money on a cost plus basis so you'll need to stump up all the finances yourself.
What are the requirements to get a builders licence o wise one?

 

[Sabbath']

Builders are collapsing because of their own stupidity & greed. they accept the work, along with people's money, without having the resources or skills to complete a job. project management requires years of experience & training, but of course idiots with a year 10 education think they can save some money & do it themselves.

Lol.

That's about all the thought people need to put into interacting with you. Is just to laugh. Not only at your ignorance but also your sheer inability to actually perceive the problem.

Although. I am shocked you somehow managed to post without mentioning Dutton or the LNP. So maybe small personal improvements are being made!

 

[Immortality]

The problem we see here in the construction industry (and I'm sure it is true for others as well) is that (lets work on the example of a builder but it could be a drain layer or plumber or any other trade for that matter) is that a builder decides to go out on his own after working for someone else for years (and no doubt good at their job) but said builder has little to no financial backing or capital (when I studied accounting and economics you set up a business plan, found capital or investors to back that plan before actually starting out).

So said builder has won a contract to build a house, they go hand out to suppliers looking for credit to purchase supplies to build said house. Now this is all well and proper but on the 20th after first month said supply companies are going to want payment on good supplied to said builder but because the house isn't complete yet and the deposit (or progress payments) aren't enough the builder is struggling to make payment and it becomes a juggling act between getting paid and paying suppliers. So said builder is walking a tight rope along the line of insolvency and missing a payment to a major supplier can quickly tip said builder/company into receivership.

This is a problem I see occur on a regular basis and it's happening during the boom part of the cycle and it only gets worse during the bust part of the cycle.

In NZ it is really hard been a small time business owner working for yourself unless you have plenty of business nous and capital which is something many small businesses seems to lack unfortunately and then there are the bad actors, the ones who think they know what they are doing and continuously run companies into the ground and then phoenix into the next one. We see way to many of those and NZ law allows them to get away with it.

I’m only speculating, but I suspect part of the reason is the warranty that has to be offered on building work (7 years?).

Builders have to purchase an insurance to cover that warranty. When something goes wrong, the builder is the first port of call and is expected to provide the warranty work. If the consumer has issues contacting the builder, I think the next port of call is to the state building authority that tracks down the builder and tries to compel them to do the work. If the builder no longer exists, then the insurance kicks in.

So, I suspect, the modus operandi for a builder becomes… set up a company, build a few houses, close company and close off ongoing liability. Set up new company, …and repeat as often as needed.

The sad news is that some builders were not even buying the mandated insurance, so the end buyer was left high and dry.

A fairly classic case of privatise the profits and socialise the loses.

Maybe the increase the cost of materials is also driving them to ’go under’ (and later phoenix)?

We have the NZ Master builder association and they provide cover to their licensed builders but try claiming on one of those policies is like getting blood out of a stone. There really is little protection for the buyer if the builder goes bust/insolvent.

This is a good example of a major construction company collapse and has been ongoing for years in the courts,

Mainzeal directors lose appeal, ordered to pay nearly $40m in damages

The Supreme Court has rejected the appeal of the four directors of the collapsed construction firm Mainzeal, with $39.8m in damages, plus interest, awarded against them for breaching the Companies Act.

www.rnz.co.nz

It's a rare case where the board is been held to account for their bad management. Glad to see the former PM been held to account!

 

[Immortality]

The ship is starting to flounder....

Willis concedes she won’t be able to get the books back in shape quickly

Finance Minister avoids unveiling likely size of Budget 2024.

www.nzherald.co.nz

And she did promise to resign if the she didn't deliver the tax cuts as promised during the election so I'll expect her resignation forthwith!

NZ can't afford the promised tax cuts and they are fools if they intend to go forward with said tax cuts. Borrowing to pay for tax cuts and keeping the books in the red IS NOT GOOD FISCAL MANAGEMENT!