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Things that p*** you off/bug you/annoy you

Sabbath'

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Which is an even less relevant parallel than I posited before but I’m sure AirStrike agrees because he’s on your team! Yay for blindly following teams regardless of the consequences!

Oh, wait, the Germans followed a certain team regardless of the consequences in the 1930’s didn’t they?
I dunno. You're the one talking about exploiting systems for your own gain while knowing it's detrimental to others in one breath while acting like anybody who puts self interest over that of the collective is some kind of monster in another. Rules for thee but not for me.

I'm not sure what "teams" has to do with this though since there's examples on both sides of the idealogical spectrum committing atrocities. But to suggest that the Germans simply followed Hitler solely on a march to genocidal extermination is categorically wrong but I'm sure along the way, some people were and, to paraphrase you here "using the situation to their best advantage"
 

J_D 2.0

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I dunno. You're the one talking about exploiting systems for your own gain while knowing it's detrimental to others in one breath while acting like anybody who puts self interest over that of the collective is some kind of monster in another. Rules for thee but not for me.

Well I’m not anti capitalist in the first place, unlike what some people on here would probably say about me. I’m anti rentier class if that’s a thing.

I personally invest in company shares as they at least notionally provide proper goods or services for money and don’t just extract rents from people.

I only put money into companies that have or will pay a dividend too as buying shares in a company that never pays dividends is just speculation in my books. If you own a share and it’s never going to pay you anything is it actually worth anything or is the only benefit the greater fool syndrome?

I'm not sure what "teams" has to do with this though since there's examples on both sides of the idealogical spectrum committing atrocities. But to suggest that the Germans simply followed Hitler solely on a march to genocidal extermination is categorically wrong but I'm sure along the way, some people were and, to paraphrase you here "using the situation to their best advantage"

It doesn’t really have anything to do with it, I’m just drawing the same parallels that you are using. I find it funny that a lot of people either can’t see through the bullshit we are given in our day to day lives or will blindly back one side of an argument without seeing the vested interests involved that are pushing them in various directions.

Take the car emissions standards I’ve just argued “for” and “against”. The car industry has a vested interest to keep selling highly profitable SUVs and utes and the government has a vested interest in distracting people from the real problems (which isn’t light transport). Both things can be true at the same time and picking a specific side ignores the vested interests of the other side.
 

OldBomb

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Oporto. Not by any stretch of the imagination can you call that a 1/4 of a chicken. More like the leg of an anorexic chicklet attached to some inedible bone. I do like my insoluble fibre, but that's next level.
 

AirStrike

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I only put money into companies that have or will pay a dividend too as buying shares in a company that never pays dividends is just speculation in my books. If you own a share and it’s never going to pay you anything is it actually worth anything or is the only benefit the greater fool syndrome?
Like property sometimes the value isn't in the income earned but the capital growth. You can have shares that have great growth with no/minimal dividends paid.
You ask if a share that doesn't pay you anything is it actually worth anything, would you say a share that increases 30% on your investment is worthless even if no dividends are paid?
 

J_D 2.0

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Like property sometimes the value isn't in the income earned but the capital growth. You can have shares that have great growth with no/minimal dividends paid.
You ask if a share that doesn't pay you anything is it actually worth anything, would you say a share that increases 30% on your investment is worthless even if no dividends are paid?

The only reason you get capital growth in shares if they don’t pay a dividend is because someone is willing to pay more for those shares than you did, in the hope they can subsequently offload them to someone else at a higher price.

If you get capital growth on a house at least you actually own the house, hypothetically even if the price crashes to zero you still physically have a house.

If a companies shares go to zero you physically own nothing. Technically you own a ”portion” of the company along with the other million or more shareholders but good luck trying to exert your ownership rights over your portion of the company.
 

07GTS

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well that was a fun experience, filling the GTS with some e85 in a jerry just started and the filler neck pops out of the jerry and ethanol goes all down the side of the car and lands on its side poring out everywhere, quickly picked it up and when i put it down it sprayed out all over me, i thought sh#t dont want that on the car so got a little water sprayer and sprayed side down, think it was lucky i coated it with a ceramic spray the other week so it all seems to have just glided off so that was a plus, bit got in my rear wheel too looks to have got the caliper a little should be ok i think, glad i didnt get pulled over on the way home for a random test as i stank of ethanol :eek:
 

Reaper

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Like property sometimes the value isn't in the income earned but the capital growth. You can have shares that have great growth with no/minimal dividends paid.
You ask if a share that doesn't pay you anything is it actually worth anything, would you say a share that increases 30% on your investment is worthless even if no dividends are paid?

This is a very personal thing relating to each investors personal circumstances. Somebody in their peak earning years possibly doesn't need the income/cash now and a high growth share portfolio that typically pays lower dividends may be the go. Alternately somebody retired needing to live off their income will need higher yield stocks such as the big banks (although I think they are a horrible investment now) or woolworths et-al.

Of course there is middle ground such as BKW or SOL which have both good growth and yield. Then there are markets such as the USA which typically pay far lower dividends than Australia. Looking at the chart for ASX:VTS which is an ETF which more or less tracks the entire US market and it has gone berserk. Year on year since inception 2009 (?) has hovered around 15% which is not bad over 15 years.


Sadly there is a 'cost' for whatever you choose.

The only reason you get capital growth in shares if they don’t pay a dividend is because someone is willing to pay more for those shares than you did, in the hope they can subsequently offload them to someone else at a higher price.

There is a *lot* more to it than that. Growth and potential have a lot to do with it. The last 30 years have been all about established industry disruptors - new tech or ways of doing things which have stayed more or less the same over 50 or 100+ years. Online commerce such as Amazon which changed how many bought and consumed books initially before branching out to broader retailing. Closer to home the likes of REA group and CarSales have completely changed how we look for cars and property for sale causing the traditional newspapers no end of grief in their wake. Other examples such as Pro Medicus have forever changed how medical imaging is done. All of these companies and no end of others like them all started at a few cents each and have made many people very rich. Yes there is a bit of hope by those early investors but they made a calculated bet on weather a business will deliver a tangible product which will take it's particular niche by storm.

These sorts of companies are very much in the spec end of investment and totally a numbers game - make a heap of small investments on potential suitors in the knowledge that (at best) 7/10 won't do anything or go broke whilst a few will do ok and maybe 1 or 2 in 100 will take your $0.03 share and fly up to $120 making the whole strategy worth while (hopefully)

This is a lot different to (say) crypto which I still see no logical sense to - it has no real tangible use aside from buying arms, drugs and money laundering. Yes I think all of those 'coins' perceived value to be nothing more than the greater fool theory on the next bloke thinking these electrons being worth more down the track because..... ummmm not sure on what basis there is other than hope. Group them with those fools that bought the jpegs of a monkey with a stupid cap a couple of years ago.

If you get capital growth on a house at least you actually own the house, hypothetically even if the price crashes to zero you still physically have a house.

You physically have the ownership of part of whatever company you invest in too assuming you go via a chess sponsored broker. USA is a little different as you don't directly own the shares but the broker holds them in trust for you. I don't think this as good as the Aus system but then again I've never heard of a broker, even those that shut up shop/went broke where the trust wasn't distributed to another broker on behalf of the consumer to effectively carry on.

If a companies shares go to zero you physically own nothing. Technically you own a ”portion” of the company along with the other million or more shareholders but good luck trying to exert your ownership rights over your portion of the company.

With the exception of the speccies I described above, very few large companies on the ASX actually go bust and when they do there are usually a lot of red flags along the way. Other markets have it happen from time to time but the incidence is still very low. I personally stay away from China and some of the Gucci 'emerging markets' as their risk profile, more so govco seizing the company if it gets too successful or other interference doesn't sit well with me.

Like everything, make sure you understand what you are investing in, objectively evaluate the risks and enjoy the ride :)
 

J_D 2.0

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There is a *lot* more to it than that. Growth and potential have a lot to do with it. The last 30 years have been all about established industry disruptors - new tech or ways of doing things which have stayed more or less the same over 50 or 100+ years. Online commerce such as Amazon which changed how many bought and consumed books initially before branching out to broader retailing. Closer to home the likes of REA group and CarSales have completely changed how we look for cars and property for sale causing the traditional newspapers no end of grief in their wake. Other examples such as Pro Medicus have forever changed how medical imaging is done. All of these companies and no end of others like them all started at a few cents each and have made many people very rich. Yes there is a bit of hope by those early investors but they made a calculated bet on weather a business will deliver a tangible product which will take it's particular niche by storm.

Thats all well and good but like I said, if they don’t ever pay a dividend then their only actual value is what someone else on the market will pay you for them. There is no yield, only potential capital gains courtesy of the person paying you for those shares.

A good dividend paying share will always be anchored by its dividend payments, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the circumstances.

Some of the shares I’ve put money into have tanked with an announcement of a reduction in dividends, putting me underwater capital gains wise but I’m not that anxious about it as they are still paying dividends (although reduced) so I’m still getting something for my money.
 

Immortality

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******* neighbours are building a fence :mad:

We live in a old neighbourhood and before the current supercity council there were no fences (on the road side) in our neighbourhood as we had really old covenants to keep the place looking clean and tidy with open sight lines.

Not only that but on his boundary there is a great big bloody tree where the fence would need to go through but instead the fence has been pushed out closer to the road outside his boundary which is going to look crap is it will be out of line with other fences. My driveway also run right along the side boundary so that is going to reduce room on the one side.

******* annoyed.

I'm ready to put the "for sale" sign out the front! (but the missus won't let me).
 

J_D 2.0

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the fence has been pushed out closer to the road outside his boundary

Wouldn't that be illegal? Pretty sure you have to build fences on your own property, not someone else’s!
 
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