VR 5.0L questions

[Anthony .]

Hi everybody,

I am possibly looking to purchase a VR 5.0l Commodore. Now, I understand and constantly hear that they are a heavy and slow slug despite the nice 5.0L v8 powering them.

I currently drive a tuned VE SV6 (P plate driver here) which has some bolt ons including extractors, Underdrive pulley, cold air intake, and plenum spacers. Sure it has improved the car somewhat noticeably (obviously the car is not extremely quick by any stretch of imagination). I don’t really want to go anything slower, but I am fine to modify the 5.0L to get it to this level of performance.

Questions:

1) what would I have to do to the 5.0L bolt on wise to achieve desired power output?

2) is there anything inherently wrong with series 1 5 litre engines? I am told to avoid them

To add, I am after a 5 litre for the fact I love these older Holden Commodores. I am not choosing this car to chase big numbers, but I would at least like the 5.0L to meet the performance output I currently have with my tuned VE SV6

Cheers

 

[someguy360]

1) what would I have to do to the 5.0L bolt on wise to achieve desired power output?

2) is there anything inherently wrong with series 1 5 litre engines? I am told to avoid them

1. Bolt on wise a good free flowing exhaust and extractors and a tune will wake it up, but don't expect miracles. These engines are 50 years old and from factory run very low compression for emissions and the fuel quality of the era.

These engines really require engine level modifications to get power, at 8:4:1 compression any bolt on mods will probably yeild you maybe 10-15kw and thats about it, considering they are 165kw at the fly from factory your VE will still likely feel quicker, but god will this sound better.

2. You'll find they are actually incredibly reliable, They'll easily do 400-500,000km well maintained. Make sure you use a good high zinc oil such as HPR30 to protect the flat tappet cam, the biggest mistake with these engines people do is think modern expensive synthetic oils with low zinc is better for these engines.

Flat tappet cams need specific oil or you'll wipe the lobes off the camshaft.


I've got a cammed and heavily modified VR (4 barrel throttle, dual plane intake, decent cam, roller rockers, higher compression heads, big stall, extractors, twin exhaust) and my SV6 is night and day difference in terms of power/speed. The torque is much much better on the V8 though, the SV6 you've got to work harder to go fast.

But I'll always chose the 5L on the weekend if I'm going for a drive, always.

My advice, don't go the 5L for a daily driver, it will complement the SV6 as a nice weekender but they are a 50 year old engine, in a 30 year old car with near non existent single piston brakes and poor suspension......I love my VR, but I wouldn't use it on a day to day basis.

VE SV6's are also great on fuel, a 5L around town won't be.......not by a long shot. Weigh up being prepared to do 15L/100km in traffic at $2.20 per litre. Mine in it's current configuration will do 20L/100km around town in traffic easily on 98 octane fuel, I'd be broke driving to the shops on the regular.

 

[Anthony .]

1. Bolt on wise a good free flowing exhaust and extractors and a tune will wake it up, but don't expect miracles. These engines are 50 years old. These engines really require engine level modifications to get power, at 8:4:1 compression any bolt on mods will probably yeild you maybe 10-15kw and thats about it, considering they are 165kw at the fly from factory your VE will still likely feel quicker, but god will this sound better.

2. You'll find they are actually incredibly reliable, They'll easily do 400-500,000km well maintained. Make sure you use a good high zinc oil such as HPR30 to protect the flat tappet cam, the biggest mistake with these engines people do is think modern expensive synthetic oils with low zinc is better for these engines.

Flat tappet cams need specific oil or you'll wipe the lobes off the camshaft.

Thank you very much mate. But is there any reason people say to avoid series 1. Is it for example, lack of modifications, design flaw?
I am thinking about maybe camming it also if I buy it.

Yep, I agree with you about the sound. One of the best sounding V8 Holden engines. A lot better than the Alloytec in my SV6 I currently have

 

[someguy360]

Thank you very much mate. But is there any reason people say to avoid series 1. Is it for example, lack of modifications, design flaw?
I am thinking about maybe camming it also if I buy it.

Yep, I agree with you about the sound. One of the best sounding V8 Holden engines. A lot better than the Alloytec in my SV6 I currently have

Nope, the engine was exactly the same from VN-VS Series 2, and I mean identical, in every way.

I've put VN engines in VS's and vice versa.

 

[someguy360]

I am thinking about maybe camming it also if I buy it.

As I said, don't expect miracles.

These engines aren't like LS's, you can't just throw a cam at it and make power, compression is the limiting factor, in fact over camming one of these engines will make them go backwards.

If you pay someone to do a cam and lifter package on one of these engines you'll spend around $5k and you won't crack 200kw, not even close. The rest of the engine needs to be built to suit the cam.

 

[Anthony .]

Nope, the engine was exactly the same from VN-VS Series 2, and I mean identical, in every way.

Interesting. Some websites for modifications say certain parts only fit series 2 or 3. Quite confusing these sites are

 

[someguy360]

Interesting. Some websites for modifications say certain parts only fit series 2 or 3

Series 3 runs the VT 5L engine with a roller cam instead of the flat tappet cam (flat tappet cams are 1960's tech)

There is a lot of differences between the Series 3/VT and the earlier engines. The Series 3/VT had to be updated to meet emissions and bridge the gap before the LS came in.

 

[Anthony .]

1. Bolt on wise a good free flowing exhaust and extractors and a tune will wake it up, but don't expect miracles. These engines are 50 years old and from factory run very low compression for emissions and the fuel quality of the era.

These engines really require engine level modifications to get power, at 8:4:1 compression any bolt on mods will probably yeild you maybe 10-15kw and thats about it, considering they are 165kw at the fly from factory your VE will still likely feel quicker, but god will this sound better.

2. You'll find they are actually incredibly reliable, They'll easily do 400-500,000km well maintained. Make sure you use a good high zinc oil such as HPR30 to protect the flat tappet cam, the biggest mistake with these engines people do is think modern expensive synthetic oils with low zinc is better for these engines.

Flat tappet cams need specific oil or you'll wipe the lobes off the camshaft.


I've got a cammed and heavily modified VR (4 barrel throttle, dual plane intake, decent cam, roller rockers, higher compression heads, big stall, extractors, twin exhaust) and my SV6 is night and day difference in terms of power/speed. The torque is much much better on the V8 though, the SV6 you've got to work harder to go fast.

But I'll always chose the 5L on the weekend if I'm going for a drive, always.

My advice, don't go the 5L for a daily driver, it will complement the SV6 as a nice weekender but they are a 50 year old engine, in a 30 year old car with near non existent single piston brakes and poor suspension......I love my VR, but I wouldn't use it on a day to day basis.

VE SV6's are also great on fuel, a 5L around town won't be.......not by a long shot. Weigh up being prepared to do 15L/100km in traffic at $2.20 per litre.

Fuel is a big consideration. But my SV6 currently reads 14.00L per 100 but I am not sure that is correct. Well at least that is what the screen says

 

[someguy360]

Fuel is a big consideration. But my SV6 currently reads 14.00L per 100 but I am not sure that is correct. Well at least that is what the screen says

Depends on driving style but I've never seen my VE go over 11L/100km even driving it hard.

I average about 9L/100km however the VR the way it's currently setup would be closer to 20L/100km.....it turns money into sound. When it was stock it did around 15L/100km in city traffic/driving if I was being careful.

The big thing here for daily driving. It's a 30 year old car, everything is 30 years old. The engines might be super reliable, but remember everything else is going to be a constant battle to keep replacing and keep up to scratch, especially with you being in NSW needing to pass yearly RWC's. The engine is only one piece in a much bigger puzzle.

Even the VE's are starting to get on a bit but are much much newer still, mines pretty much set and forget other than oil changes and brakes.

 

[Anthony .]

Depends on driving style but I've never seen my VE go over 11L/100km even driving it hard.

I average about 9L/100km however the VR the way it's currently setup would be closer to 20L/100km.....it turns money into sound. When it was stock it did around 15L/100km in city traffic/driving.

My sv6 gained quite a bit more torque while driving normally and giving it the boot. Responsiveness is brilliant and that annoying lag has almost disappeared. This is compared to stock. Under normal driving conditions, up to 3000 RPM will keep up with with traffic and sometimes even be ahead kind of noticeably. Just sharing the results, not at all trying to encourage or discourage modifying a SV6.

The problem is that I will have to get rid of the VE Sv6 if I buy the 5L. Given I don’t have too much space to store both, and can’t justify paying 2x insurance, rego, etc.

Don’t really want another V6 if I’m going down the route of an early Commodore, but if I did the same modifications to a 3.8L ecotec or Buick v6 would it be close to the 5.0L in terms of power gains?

I don’t disagree with your statement about the 5.0L turning money into sound. Well, a very spectacular sound