When will people learn

[Darren_L]

To me the education side of it needs to focus more on defensive driving, learning how to control your car in adverse conditions, not driving up and down a highway for 120odd hours.

problem is these sort of incidents don't happen because of adverse conditions, they happen because someone is street racing, doing a speed run or trying to drift their car on a public road. Defensive driving training isn't going to stop that, it's aim is to teach drivers how to handle a car should something go wrong when driving sensibly. It doesn't cover handling a car sliding out of control at twice the speed limit. It's driver attitude, not training that is the problem here.... You can teach someone to do the right thing, convincing them do it is another story. Young guys have a fast car, they want to show off, they want to show their mates they have the faster car or they are the better driver. They'll do it on the street irrelevant of how dangerous it might be (in fact it's probably half the thrill) Encourage them to take it to a racetrack and let the steam off safely

 

[Immortality]

I believe the govt could do a lot more to kurb some of this carnage.
They crap on about getting hoons off the street etc, making sure their efforts are very dramatic and publicised so it looks like they are doing something...

but in reality they are making stuff all difference - as seen from all of these incidents.
IF they were serious and bothered to do a bit of research, they would realise that young guys (in particular) have lots of testosterone. Mix that with cars and it's going to be on. Doesn't matter if you threaten to take their cars and crush them, they are still going to do it.

So why not make the race track a place which is more attractive to 'hoons'. The drag strip isn't overly expensive, but it's hellishly expensive taking your car out for a sprint session at a circuit. So why doesn't the govt organise encourage 'race your mates' sessions at race tracks (both circuit and drag strip) by organising and subsidising such events. And it doesn't need to cost the taxpayer anything. I'm sure there would be lots of automotive related companies willing to throw sponsorship money at such events, and they could further encourage by inviting well known race drivers out on some of the days to get people attending. Drivers could offer some tips and encouragement.

Before I used to take my car out to sprint sessions, I often had the urge to give the car a squirt on the streets, twisty country roads etc. But one track day satisfies enough of my adrenaline to keep me well behaved for several months. I can honestly say that ever since taking my adrenaline out at the race track, I rarely intentionally break any road rules, speed limits etc. It almost seems pointless to me now after being on a track where you can use the entire road to corner, don't have to watch for speed cameras/police and can legitimately go flat out without having to dodge other motorists.

You are still going to get your d**kheads who get a thrill out of breaking the law, or are too pissweak to go to the track because they know they can't drive anywhere near as well as they think they can and fear they might get shown up in front of all their peers. But I reckon a lot of these guys/girls would be keen to keep it off the road if they had a reasonably affordable, convenient and safe alternative

You are correct, however this doesn't have the "revenue" element that all government initiatives must have so unfortunately the status quo will remain.


There is a classic example locally to where I am, some business guy had a spare bit of real estate in a business area that he wasn't using. He proposed to turn it into a burnout park, fully lined with concrete barriers and safety etc, would charge a nominal fee for people to use as long as the car WOF and registration. Council turned him down with some BS excuse so the young folk keep doing it the illegal way.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I don't agree about the older and wiser comment regarding road rules etc, I don't think it's a matter of being wiser and making better decisions, it's more about the fear of getting caught and or damage and injury, because you realize the ramifications and consequences. Younger people tend to care less about consequences so act more rashly. As you get older, consequences carry more weight than the short thrill.

This probably translates into making wiser decisions so same same really lol.

People do need an outlet, but the old slap in the face with a glove and setting the time and place for a duel won't happen when you are lined up at the lights against an easy target.

"No, I won't race you here old chap, lets square off at *insert race track* and see who is the better man and has the faster car."

Yeah....nah....it's usually "I'm in my fully sik VX V6 and I'm going to take that poof in his 911 easy mate".

 

[Pollushon]

There's quite a bit of research into the development of the male brain vs. age vs. judgment and decision making. It's fairly solid that from average ages 18-29 (differing for different people) the brain is still developing its good decision making skills. So naturally showing your prowess off as opposed doing the safe thing isn't really a decision at all.

If your brain isn't developed enough for a certain decision, chances are you're going to make one that could be high consequence if it goes badly.

I can remember when I believed I was invincible, any decision was a good one as long as it made me go fast.

 

[fireguard]

problem is these sort of incidents don't happen because of adverse conditions, they happen because someone is street racing, doing a speed run or trying to drift their car on a public road. Defensive driving training isn't going to stop that, it's aim is to teach drivers how to handle a car should something go wrong when driving sensibly. It doesn't cover handling a car sliding out of control at twice the speed limit. It's driver attitude, not training that is the problem here.... You can teach someone to do the right thing, convincing them do it is another story. Young guys have a fast car, they want to show off, they want to show their mates they have the faster car or they are the better driver. They'll do it on the street irrelevant of how dangerous it might be (in fact it's probably half the thrill) Encourage them to take it to a racetrack and let the steam off safely

Completely agree with what your saying. My point was more where the focus should be when teaching young people to drive. On developing skills as opposed to time on the road.

 

[cracker]

Completely agree with what your saying. My point was more where the focus should be when teaching young people to drive. On developing skills as opposed to time on the road.

skill has little to do with it, when your younger you make more poor choices and have less regard for yours and others safety.

 

[c2105026]

There's quite a bit of research into the development of the male brain vs. age vs. judgment and decision making. It's fairly solid that from average ages 18-29 (differing for different people) the brain is still developing its good decision making skills. So naturally showing your prowess off as opposed doing the safe thing isn't really a decision at all.

If your brain isn't developed enough for a certain decision, chances are you're going to make one that could be high consequence if it goes badly.

I can remember when I believed I was invincible, any decision was a good one as long as it made me go fast.

A lot of reasons why men, particularly young men, do stupidly dangerous things comes down to evolution. Until 10,000 years ago - a blip on the evolutionary time scale - we lived as hunters and gatherers. This was a dangerous lifestyle, dealing with weapons, warring tribes, wild animals. As such a man could show bravery to his peers as an act of domination, or to females as a mating rituals - 'I'm big, I can provide for you, my seed will spread' etc. all part of evolution by natural selection - men who had genes showing bravery would have more offspring etc.

Fast forward to 2014, no woolly mammoths or sabre tooth tigers, agriculture and industrial revolution has taken the physical aspect out of much of humankind. But the male genetic code hasn't changed much in last 10,000 years. As such some aggressive males seek other outlets to show masculinity to peers or mates. There are several, some are constructive, some not so, but one route can be by showing bravery on the roads, and this entails doing stupidly dangerous things, that often have nasty consequences.

Doesn't matter the route you try - improved licencing, driver training - we are trying to fight genes that are ultimately millions of years old. The 'keep it off the streets' approach does sound plausible, however when I tried to start an initiative about it when I worked at RTA road safety it was shut down in 5 seconds without a second thought, for 'RTA does not condone motorsport'.

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Any government department does not condone motorsport. We had the same issue with the group we are involved in with 4WDing. If you have anything in your agenda or constitution or code of practice that mentions any type of competiveness, DPaW (Department of Parks and Wildlife) don't want anything to do with you.