alloytec fault i thought i would share.

[AaronTaylor]

i started my vz and moved it about 4 meters, back into the garage.
the next day i went to start the car, it turned over but refused to start.
i noticed i couldnt here the fuel pump, having had a fuel pump die on my falcon i
dropped the tank to test the fuel pump, and to my surprise there was no power.
i then checked fuses and relay, all was ok.
i then bypassed the relay to test the fuel pump, all was ok.
i then tried starting the car while manually powering the fuel pump, still no go.
i noticed that the cranking sound was unusual but didnt think anything of it at the time.
so by this time all i can tell is that something is telling the fuel pump and coils not to turn on.
i have the car towed to a mechanic with the required diagnostic tools, by this time the battery was quite flat from all the cranking.

a few hours later i recieve a call from the mechanic telling me that there was no compression, i thought great, engine is stuffed, he then continued to say that with his remote battery attached and several more cranking attempts the compression started to return.

his conclusion was that the variable cam timing somehow got confused or stuck from the very small run the night before when i moved the car into the garage, and therefore needed a lot of cranking to raise enough oil pressure to rectify the problem.

[VzVzVz]

Wow, just goes to show how the more complex the engine, the more that can f*ck up. If it were up to me, the VZ would have the ecotec.

[Phyco]

i have the car towed to a mechanic with the required diagnostic tools, by this time the battery was quite flat from all the cranking.

a few hours later i recieve a call from the mechanic telling me that there was no compression, i thought great, engine is stuffed, he then continued to say that with his remote battery attached and several more cranking attempts the compression started to return.

This may seem a little obvious, but did it not occur to you to try jump starting or a different battery before going to such lengths?

[Little Red VZ Go-Kart]

The moral to this sorry story is probably quite clear: avoid very short runs.
Historically I have avoided whenever and wherever possible running the engine — any engine, not specifically the Alloytecs — for something like moving it forward or back a few meters. Oil is not going to circulate through a cold engine in say 30 seconds of driving, simple as that. With Alloytecs there are all sorts of "eyes" watching the engine (computer monitoring) that could potentially make a simple problem more aggravating. True that while workshops regularly shuttle cars back and forth from one place to the next, they quite often leave them idling for a few minutes. All the same, I would be inclined to ask if the mechanic had found anything else amiss beside the conclusion he arrived at?

[jake383]

i had this same problem i fitted new spark plugs and after abit of cranking the car started the raa told me thhat if these enngines are run for less than 5 mins they can flood

[swpcsupport]

This thread maybe old but i have the same issue. How much cranking is required for it to start.
thanks

[bigdaddycool]

It's unlikely....... I've run 7 different car tunes on my VZ Exec from VE Omega's to VE SV6's, American CTS's etc..........

The car corrects itself. I'd say you have another issue....... maybe to do with the oil pump, a leak or blockage maybe? Maybe your camshaft sensors are stuffed? maybe you just plain have an electrical fault.

[Benboy]

This type of problem is definetly a fuel (flooding) problem. NOT mechanical, NOT electrical.

[Jazzervz]

The car was flooded its is a basic as that when you start the car cold it injects extra fuel to start the car and warm it up quicker all cars do this carby and electronic injection always have and always will. So when you stared the car cold and switch it off before it warms up chances are that your car may flood as a result of not being able to warm up. I would say that your car has no issues at all. Just allow the car to idle for 5 mins to get some heat into the motor and you will be fine

[nch640]

have had the experience twice so far where the vz would not start. first time i rang the dealer,the car was towed in, rang me to say no apparent problems, all the codes are clear, pay an hours labour and come collect the car.

this morning went to start the car and same thing, would not start. but by now i had joined the RACQ. they came out, heard it try to start and said "it's flooded". he removed the fuel pump fuse no15 and got me to crank the car twice. on the third crank he put the fuse in and it nearly started. he then told me to hold the accelerator pedal about halfway down and cranked it again with the fuse out. cranked again as he inserted the fuse ,it started but i took my foot off and it stopped. nearly there he said. do it again but do not lift your foot for a few seconds. worked. he then said, did you start the car, move it a short distance and then turn it off? yes. he said you can't do that because at cold start-up a heap of fuel is put in. if you move a short distance and switch off then unburnt fuel remains. must leave the engine idle until the revs drop to normal. makes sense. he said it is a common to modern cars, not only to commodores.
i wonder why couldn't the dealer have told me this ?
hope this helps some-one
cheers

[bcw61]

he then told me to hold the accelerator pedal about halfway down

Actually, you can activate the 'Clear Flood Mode', by holding the accelerator pedal all the way down (WOT), whilst cranking the engine. The Clear Flood Mode causes the ECM to completely disable the fuel injectors, prevent any fuel being injected and allowing the clearance of the unburnt fuel. Also having the accelerator at WOT during the Clear Flood Mode allows maximum airflow through the engine during cranking, further enhancing the removal of unburnt fuel. The ECM will maintain the Clear Flood Mode as long as the accelerator is at WOT, and engine speed is less than 1000 rpm. This feature in the ECM goes as far back as the VN, and is is similar to the 'unloader' feature on old carby engines, to assist starting a flooded engine.

It is surprising that the owners manual does not appear to make any mention of this feature, as it may possibly have saved you some time, money & grief.

[Trent L]

+1 Very informative bcw61.

[Little Red VZ Go-Kart]

My brother-in-law is notorious for shifting the 2005 Holden Astra CDxi (Ecotech engine) 2 metres back every day so he has workshop space. It often splutters, shakes and coughs from this treatment week in week out. To him, advice on better ways to treat the car is unwelcome. Fine. Glad he's not in charge of my VZ!!

I wanted to know, does the digital display in VZ actually say "CLEAR FLOOD MODE" as a message with or without an associated trouble (or error-) code and "OK!" confirmation message??
The Owners Manual does have a lot of irritating omissions which have only been answered well on this forum, and it could with less pomp and posturing with English and more refinement and existing content inclusion of lesser-known but very valuable and helpful information.

[bcw61]

I wanted to know, does the digital display in VZ actually say "CLEAR FLOOD MODE" as a message with or without an associated trouble (or error-) code and "OK!" confirmation message??
The Owners Manual does have a lot of irritating omissions which have only been answered well on this forum, and it could with less pomp and posturing with English and more refinement and existing content inclusion of lesser-known but very valuable and helpful information.

I fully concur with your sentiments. The 'Clear Flood Mode' is inbuilt into the ECM. I haven't tried the Clear Flood Mode out on my VZ (might try it out tomorrow when I'm less pissed), but the factory manual makes no mention of any indications or warnings coming up.

Like you, I'm really surprised that the owners manual makes no reference to this mode. This is the same as my old VN - which also had this facility inbuilt into the ECM - I don't recall any reference to this mode in the owners manual. Maybe an attempt to extract extra service dollars for dealers perhaps???

[Brett_jjj]

The "clear flood" feature is apparently a standard feature in most ECU's.As explained above,its activated by holding the throttle wide open and cranking the engine over..Its mentioned a few times in the tech 1 handbooks and user manuals.. Id never even heard of it until reading it in these tech 1 manuals.