KABUL Afghanistan and the Taliban (I call them TelevisionBan)

[Ginger Beer]

Hi All,

I would notmally not involve myself in a topic like this. However, this thread caught my eye as I served a few tours in Afghanistan. I am genuinely dismayed by what I see and hear on the news and am disturbed by the views many people hold in relation to Afghanistan, the Afghani peoples and those that served there.

My view is based on personal experience and is not tainted by conspiracy throries or political bent. Although, like everyone. I have personal biases.
In the main I believe that the Afghani peoples were greatful for the support they were given. However; Afghans are a collection of interesting peoples that are very focussed on their family unit as opposed to the nation. It is a society where truth is whatever helps the family unit; where homosexuality is frowned upon but molesting the tea boy is OK, where an eye for an eye is acceptable and a blood feud can go on for generations. Yet we are wanting this society converted into a homogenous democracy operating to western norms in the blink of an eyelid.

Afghan society isn't based on nationalistice fervor and the generation of change requred to develop a nationalistic spirit has only been given a taste of what the future could hold. Those that really want change simply aren't in a position to make that change happen.

Real change can't happen in 20 years; change takes at least two generations - one to realise change and one to make it happen. Western society (governments) is too focussed on what gets them another three or four year term as opposed to making real change. It is not something that can be acheived in a three to four year term, even a few of them. You require a long term commitment - similar to the commitment that China has to achieving its goals (for good or bad).

If there isn't a desire to make a real change then politicians simply should not go there. They should achieve whatever national interest needs to be protected, without gloves, and live with the good press with the bad. They should not cover it with bullshit about making a difference, or setting the conditions for regional change. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze, just don't do it. I am saddened that we lost so many to see a re-run of Vietnam. One can now only hope that the reprisals are swift and a moderate Taliban Government rules. The opportunity to nurture change has has bolted.

For those that are calling it a military faiilure. If you haven't been there you don't know. If you have you must have seen something different to me. The military had several missions: defeat the Taliban, set the conditions for the establishment of an Afghan Government and Train and Equip the Afghan National Army (ANA). Taliban defeated, check (albeit not destroyed), Interim Governmant Installed, check, democratic elections held, tick, ANA raised and trained, mmm? That last one is debatable. Was the ANA trained - tick, equipped, tick, effective tick. Was the Afghan Government capable of supporting the ANA. No. Was the ANA leadership supportive of Afghanistan as a nation? You would have to say no. Were the Afghan peoples bought into Afghanistan as a society? No.

So what about those jumping up and down at home? The majority are sheep believe what is reported instead of reaching for the truth. Unfortunately journalists only report what feeds their egos, what sells, or what they are paid to report. Not what we need to know in an unbiased manner. For example - if a coalition operation results in collateral damage to a mosque it is reported with outlandish headlines in the US, UK, Australia and NZ. The media calls for heads to roll and there are protests in the streets. However, if a Saudi Jet deliberately bombs a Mosque in Yemen housing women and children trying to excape the conflict the facts are reprted in a story that is buried at the bottom of world news. Why isn't the public outraged about that? Why arent we all outraged at the events unfolding in West Papua, Myanmar or China. Aren't they just as horrific as what has and is happening in Afghanistan?

In short - the outcome in Afghanistan is horrendous, the hope given to many has been taken away. It is not a failing of the Military or a Deep State conspiracy (if it was a deep state issue they wouldn't let the cash cow crumble). The blame lies at the feet of two parties: the policicians who are not prepared to follow through after making a "commitment" to the region and the Afghan people who are not prepared to stand up for a nation they don't believe in. They are clearly ambivalent about the Taliban and turmoil happening around them toherwise as a tribe they would have done something about it - as the Keurds did agaisnt ISIS. They now have a seat at Iraqi table.

Quoted for the truth

Ubique

Honi soit qui mal y pense

 

[Jolls]

Ubique

Honi soit qui mal y pense

Facimus Et Frangimus

You have a great pedigree Mr Beer!

 

[VFSV6FORME]

I had to turn off my Satellite system for two days because of all the madness in Kubul. Reuters shot a lot of video but I will say 80% is not viewable by the average Joe blow and their family whilst eating at night. I really, really, really think about the good people there and they have to live in that shi.t hole full of madness and now they have to deal with the other loonies, ISIS the collection of psychopaths.

 

[VFSV6FORME]

I was watching Satellite Tv last night (Reuters News Service) and I cannot believe the US is so Stupid as they left enough weaponry to start a WAR. Put it this way Australia wont have the amount of weaponry in 100 years yet the Taliban go it it for free. For Truck sake Biden after the LAST US personal is gone from from Afghanistan send your drone to blow everthing up. I had to do a research on this and found the below.
An unnamed official told Reuters that current intelligence assessment was that the Taliban took control of more than 2,000 armored vehicles, including American Humvees, and as many as 40 aircraft that may include UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters and Scan Eagle military drones.

FOR FCUK SAKE The American are stupid. For me I would go back for another WAR just to get the weaponry out or at least BLOW it UP.

Don't worry USA you will have a C130 full of bombs crash into another building in years to come so what are you going to do with the Taliban
then.

BLOW IT UP!!!!!!!!!

 

[figjam]

That is a lot of weapons, support vehicles and cost, but it shows what was sent to Afghanistan from 2003 to 2016.
It does not show what has been left behind in working condition, or if the Taliban have to smarts to operate and maintain that left-over equipment.
Certainly light arms and ammunition do not need sophisticated systems behind them to be operational, but I doubt if C130s, and Blackhawks are turn the key and fly, or how many land vehicles are still in road-going condition.
No wonder the Ford Ranger is one of the top selling utes in the world. I thought the Toyota Hilux was the choice of transport for 'civilian' armies.

One of my favourite movie scenes is from 'Independance Day' ............ an alcoholic crop-duster pilot jumps into a F18 Hornet and destroys the alien mothership ....... simples. Ain't necessarily so that the Taliban can do similar.

 

[lmoengnr]

The US has been known to leave cases of 7.62x39 ammo around remote middle east locations, with dodgy head stamps, and loaded with much faster burning pistol propellant.
Terrorists think they've hit the jackpot, till they pull the trigger and their AK47 blows up in their face.
They can do the same thing with grenades and mortar rounds...

 

[07GTS]

dosnt take much since the taliban is in with china now so... china now has the ability to get a blackhawk or any left over equipment and reverse engineer it and check out all the tech onboard, very big loss to the free world it should have all been destroyed if it was left there

 

[Jolls]

mmm interesting - I doubt the Chinese needed a Crashawk to reverse engineer. The real tech was never given to the Afghans - just the basics.

 

[07GTS]

mmm interesting - I doubt the Chinese needed a Crashawk to reverse engineer. The real tech was never given to the Afghans - just the basics.

knowing what the opposition has, does uses, operates, and how its all put together gives the upper hand to any conflict, same as the info they left there with the biometric contacts for all afgans that helped the US, AUS ect they are all now going to be killed and they cant escape as all there data (finger prints, eye scans, addresses, family, everything) is with the taliban

 

[Derekthetree]

knowing what the opposition has, does uses, operates, and how its all put together gives the upper hand to any conflict, same as the info they left there with the biometric contacts for all afgans that helped the US, AUS ect they are all now going to be killed and they cant escape as all there data (finger prints, eye scans, addresses, family, everything) is with the taliban

Are you sure? Sounds like something (data) that can easily be extracted or deleted before leaving.