Ask The Copper

[VicCop]

Here's a good scenario - Overseas person on a student visa is stopped by police. They are on an overseas licence and produce an Australian learner permit. Which one applies? Are they committing an offence of driving without a qualified driver when on a learner permit, or are they ok to be driving on their overseas licence?

Also, why would they have both?

No one has had a stab at that one yet.

It's a good one to think about. The answer is rather stupid.

 

[Kikki]

They are ok to drive on a overseas lic arnt they?

Which I would class as stupid since the roads & rules are very different.

 

[Melchior3]

Not car related, but...
Over the last week or so, one of my mum's neighbours has been coming to her door and between speaking gibberish, has been asking my sister to go out with him and claiming to be Jesus. Also he seems to be pinging off his head on drugs because he has no idea what he's doing or saying.

Now I dont live at home and it's quite a drive away for me, not to mention that the guy is a big Maori bloke with a large family in the neighbouring house, so there isn't alot I can do in any case. My mum called the cops 2 or 3 times when this happened and they basically said they wouldn't attend unless something actually happened and they should just ask him to move on and "try talking to him". Right.

My question is: are the police required to attend if you believe there is potential for you to come to harm or that someone won't stop coming around and bothering you AND you call multiple times about it?
The other suggestion they had was to get a restraining order...which I was led to believe had to have some basis, such as PRIOR police attendance.

Thanks.

 

[VicCop]

Not car related, but...
Over the last week or so, one of my mum's neighbours has been coming to her door and between speaking gibberish, has been asking my sister to go out with him and claiming to be Jesus. Also he seems to be pinging off his head on drugs because he has no idea what he's doing or saying.

Now I dont live at home and it's quite a drive away for me, not to mention that the guy is a big Maori bloke with a large family in the neighbouring house, so there isn't alot I can do in any case. My mum called the cops 2 or 3 times when this happened and they basically said they wouldn't attend unless something actually happened and they should just ask him to move on and "try talking to him". Right.

My question is: are the police required to attend if you believe there is potential for you to come to harm or that someone won't stop coming around and bothering you AND you call multiple times about it?
The other suggestion they had was to get a restraining order...which I was led to believe had to have some basis, such as PRIOR police attendance.

Thanks.

What you're talking about is an intervention order. The only real basis you need for one is you saying you feel threatened, harrassed or stalked.

 

[Melchior3]

What you're talking about is an intervention order. The only real basis you need for one is you saying you feel threatened, harrassed or stalked.

Ah I see. What exactly does that provide? In terms of getting something done about the problem. Do you think the police should've attended?

 

[Shounak]

No one has had a stab at that one yet.

It's a good one to think about. The answer is rather stupid.

1. They should have handed in their OS licence when obtaining a learner permit.

2. I would guess that the locally issued Learners would carry more suction than an OS licence, so they would be driving unsupervised.

3. I'm pretty sure that if people have an OS licence from a non-approved licence changeover country, their OS licence is treated as a learner permit. In that they don't get given a full licence, but they can sit the driving test without a qualification period and do their 3 years of P plates.

How's that?

 

[Shounak]

They are ok to drive on a overseas lic arnt they?

Which I would class as stupid since the roads & rules are very different.

So when I was in Thailand for a week, I should've sat their car and motorcycle test before being allowed to drive or ride in the country. I then jumped to India just afterwards, where I would've had to sit another 2 tests.

Not to mention the countless vistors I've had from US + UK who feel cut off at the knee's without a vehicle. They should either taxi about everywhere or sit driving tests?

Driving is driving. That's why after 3 months you're required to sit the test, making everyone convert their licence is not feasible.

 

[helly]

You don't have to be an Australian resident to get an OZ licence, but as soon as you do the licence that you have obtained here, overrides your O/S licence. There is no obligation to surrender an O/S licence once you obtain a licence here, nor is there any Authority that can make you surrender it. you may very well be travelling between two countries and require your O/S licence every once and a while when you travel O/S.

In regards to the first question asked though, you'd be treated as an un-accompanied learner.

I had this exact same thing where I nabbed an Indian guy doing 150 late one night with his wife next to him. Pulled him over and he produced his Indian licence. I went back and did my checks and found that he had a NSW learner's permit. So he had issues with regard to the speed and no 'L' Plates.

I then went back and asked the lady if she had a full Australian Licence and she said 'yes' and could only produce her passport for ID. I go back and do a check and, of course, she also had a NSW L licence.

So she gets one for give false/misleading information to police and he gets another for being a 'learner un-acompanied', well actually she got the ticket and I sent him to court.

Second over 45 offence (mind you with an 80kph speed limit for L plater's he was actually 70k's over) His Honour was a little cranky with him since when I got him he had only had his licence back from suspension for the previous speeding offence for about 10 days. He copped 3 years Disqualification, $2,500 fine for the speed and $900 for unaccompanied, and His Honour let the no L plates slide...

Some people are idiots!!!

 

[VicCop]

You don't have to be an Australian resident to get an OZ licence, but as soon as you do the licence that you have obtained here, overrides your O/S licence. There is no obligation to surrender an O/S licence once you obtain a licence here, nor is there any Authority that can make you surrender it. you may very well be travelling between two countries and require your O/S licence every once and a while when you travel O/S.

In regards to the first question asked though, you'd be treated as an un-accompanied learner.

I had this exact same thing where I nabbed an Indian guy doing 150 late one night with his wife next to him. Pulled him over and he produced his Indian licence. I went back and did my checks and found that he had a NSW learner's permit. So he had issues with regard to the speed and no 'L' Plates.

I then went back and asked the lady if she had a full Australian Licence and she said 'yes' and could only produce her passport for ID. I go back and do a check and, of course, she also had a NSW L licence.

So she gets one for give false/misleading information to police and he gets another for being a 'learner un-acompanied', well actually she got the ticket and I sent him to court.

Second over 45 offence (mind you with an 80kph speed limit for L plater's he was actually 70k's over) His Honour was a little cranky with him since when I got him he had only had his licence back from suspension for the previous speeding offence for about 10 days. He copped 3 years Disqualification, $2,500 fine for the speed and $900 for unaccompanied, and His Honour let the no L plates slide...

Some people are idiots!!!

That is a fantastic result.

I wish Victoria was like that.

In the scenario I described the O/S has all the weight. Why would then they be carrying a learner permit?

VicRoads is quite happy to grant them a learner permit so that they can use it for ID. That's all, they have no intention of going through the motions of getting a licence, they just want it for ID.

However, they can't be disqualified from driving here. I've had the situation where someone produced a New Zealand licence. Once I ran their name through VicRoads I found out that they were disqualified from driving in Victoria, probably because of a drink driving matter.

As long as they've been here within the set time (three months) and the licence has the english translation, they can do whatever they want. Except for persons on a student visa, they can be here for as long as they want. Another problem though is that we have to take their word for it. There's no power for us to demand to see a person's visa.

Guaranteed there will be others that will disagree with this. It's something that's debated every day.

 

[helly]

VicCop,

We actually do have the authority to request a visa under the Migration Act of 1958. We do a lot of operations out here with illegal workers. If we have a reasonable suspicion that the person is a non-citizen then we can direct them to produce evidence of their status. This is found under section 188 and provides all police officers of any state or territory with this power.

In the event that we reasonably suspect that a person is an unlawful non-citizen we are required to detain them and are required to do so under this legislation. However we only do so if DIMMA say they are gunna come and get them. Which is rare, cos we get left holding the ball so to speak...

In regards to the O/S licences, our legislation may be a little diff in NSW as if you are Disqualified here it is not your licence that is disqualified it is YOU, the type of licence held is not relevant as YOU become disqualified from obtaining or holding a licence in the state. Technically if you are an O/S driver, you have an exemption to holding a NSW licence under certain circumstances, but if you become disqualified that exemption ceases.

Now that's made everything as clear as mud hasn't it! Unfortunately the finer details of each states rules differ just enough to make it hard for everyone to keep up... I'm all for Federal Road Rules!!!