Cam Surge

[07GTS]

I only say that because almost none of my friends or family have an interest in my cars and yet they've made comments on exhausts and stuff on some of my cars and said things like ain't that illegal and doesn't it worry you the Police will pull you over.

If people who have no interest in cars have an idea it may not be legal, surely with exceptions the majority of owners modifying their cars must have some understand the legalities of it.

Sh*t I don't know how many rims I've bought over the years that had 'For Off Road Use Only' stamped inside them.

So maybe the supplier of the tune should push the legal responsibility onto the purchaser by advising them in writing on a quote or invoice that the changes are for 'Off Road Use Only'.

It would be interested to see the outcome if a customer took the tuner to court for supplying illegal changes to their vehicle, not that I could ever see it happening.



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i think in that case the tuner would only be able to tune cars that were not registered to be safe, otherwise tuning a car for off road only that is registered means it will be driven on the road so the blame will be on the tuner, my understanding anyway

 

[panhead]

i think in that case the tuner would only be able to tune cars that were not registered to be safe, otherwise tuning a car for off road only that is registered means it will be driven on the road so the blame will be on the tuner, my understanding anyway

You could be 100 percent right but I don’t see it that way, what I see is the disclosure puts the onuses on the purchaser not to drive it on a public thoroughfare.

Not that care if workshops inform you beforehand, you should be doing your own homework or applying a little common sense that a change from OEM spec may not be lawful.

A lot of services are purchased by enthusiast for their cars that aren’t strictly legal, a suspension shop may knowingly drop a car below legal height because that’s what you want, exhaust shops may fit parts that don’t meet emissions, rims are fitted that exceed legislation, as is cams, forced induction, CAI and changes that require an engineer’s certification are never presented for approval.

Ron Burgundy’s brakes being the exception.

I always believe whether you do your own work or pay for someone else to do it, if you know that that work steps outside the boundaries then you as the owner should be solely responsible.

It would be more interesting to know how many owners would say no and walk away if they were told it was for ‘Off Road Use Only’ and how many wouldn’t care.

I know I’d take my chances.



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[losh1971]

Mines a pig below, 2k as well and especially 1400-1900. My cam is not huge and makes real power from 3k on, Can't use 6th unless your speeding. I will be keeping an eye on here with the outcome, although I already know the answer to my problem. But no known decent tuners unless I cross the water.....

 

[Skylarking]

I always believe whether you do your own work or pay for someone else to do it, if you know that that work steps outside the boundaries then you as the owner should be solely responsible.

Somehow I don’t think that old “your honour, I only sold him the gun and what he did with it after was his sole responsibility“ would hold much weigh in a court of law.

Such would also be the case when shops perform illegal modifications but to be held to account, it would require an interesting case to wake the DPP from their slumber and get them to actually apply the law.

As is, businesses have specific responsibilities in law and their liability related to the mods that they do is greater than many seem to appreciate or acknowledge. Frustratingly, they all seem to understand their liabilities when it comes to you wanting to check the work they are doing and inspect the vehicle while it is on the hoist - can’t do that cause of OH&S bullshit that is always referenced… Hypocrisy thy name is business

Ron Burgundy’s brakes being the exception.

Kudos to him for doing things correctly and by the book

 

[losh1971]

Regardless of the legalities they need to sort the OP's car out. If they're happy to make unlawful mods knowing people will use it on the road then they need to back up their workmanship. It's part of running a reputable business. People have cammed street cars for as long as I can remember and that's over 40 years. The shop should still warrant their work regardless. They need to drive it on the street, even if the OP is in another car alongside them travelling at the problem speeds.

 

[Skylarking]

The shop should still warrant their work regardless.

This discussion popped up because it’s an interesting issue whether one can even warrant illegal work. So in such cases, ACL may not provide the remedy (teeth) one hopes when presented to a judge, may be…

But having said that, any good shop would consider reputational risk and actually try and help resolve any issues before it even comes before a judge at tribunal Guess the operative word is good shop

 

[07GTS]

You could be 100 percent right but I don’t see it that way, what I see is the disclosure puts the onuses on the purchaser not to drive it on a public thoroughfare.

Not that care if workshops inform you beforehand, you should be doing your own homework or applying a little common sense that a change from OEM spec may not be lawful.

A lot of services are purchased by enthusiast for their cars that aren’t strictly legal, a suspension shop may knowingly drop a car below legal height because that’s what you want, exhaust shops may fit parts that don’t meet emissions, rims are fitted that exceed legislation, as is cams, forced induction, CAI and changes that require an engineer’s certification are never presented for approval.

Ron Burgundy’s brakes being the exception.

I always believe whether you do your own work or pay for someone else to do it, if you know that that work steps outside the boundaries then you as the owner should be solely responsible.

It would be more interesting to know how many owners would say no and walk away if they were told it was for ‘Off Road Use Only’ and how many wouldn’t care.

I know I’d take my chances.



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yep all the work I've done and am doing i havnt been pulled over yet so running the gauntlet continues.... not driving like an ass on the streets helps too

 

[Daniel Souza]

If the tuners locks the Ecu , he is forcing the customer to run on the road with the modification.

 

[Immortality]

I can't see how a tuner has any right to "lock" the ecu. The owner of the car has paid for a product including the credits for the tuning software therefore the vehicle owner has the rights to that product and anything that comes from it.

All tuners will know that locked ecu's can be unlocked so there really isn't much point in the practice anymore other than inconvenience the vehicle owner. Also, by locking the tune the owner is forced to go back to the same supplier if any more work needs to be done and I don't think that is legal either.

Ultimately, all this has achieved for the shop in question is a big black mark against their name.

The worst part is, shops like this will push certain cam grinds and as they have fitted these cams on multiple vehicles they will have tuning files that should be very close from the dozens of vehicles they have done before. So, fit cam, upload tune, put it on the rollers and check the tune/tweak to suit individual vehicle and he presto, job done. That is how shops like this make money but it seems they can't even get that right anymore.

So, the options for the OP are,

1. take it back to the shop in question and try to get it sorted.
2. take it to a different tuner, do a before and after video and post it online after the problems are fixed and then everybody can see.

 

[Daniel Souza]

I can't see how a tuner has any right to "lock" the ecu. The owner of the car has paid for a product including the credits for the tuning software therefore the vehicle owner has the rights to that product and anything that comes from it.

All tuners will know that locked ecu's can be unlocked so there really isn't much point in the practice anymore other than inconvenience the vehicle owner. Also, by locking the tune the owner is forced to go back to the same supplier if any more work needs to be done and I don't think that is legal either.

Ultimately, all this has achieved for the shop in question is a big black mark against their name.

The worst part is, shops like this will push certain cam grinds and as they have fitted these cams on multiple vehicles they will have tuning files that should be very close from the dozens of vehicles they have done before. So, fit cam, upload tune, put it on the rollers and check the tune/tweak to suit individual vehicle and he presto, job done. That is how shops like this make money but it seems they can't even get that right anymore.

So, the options for the OP are,

1. take it back to the shop in question and try to get it sorted.
2. take it to a different tuner, do a before and after video and post it online after the problems are fixed and then everybody can see.

We gave the OP a 3rd option as well