camshaft wear with AFM/DOD?

[apollo13]

I saw a video by some USAsian who bought a Caprice PPV, and he complained about having to replace a
camshaft due to DOD plus car having spent 2/3 of it's time with the engine idling.
So does DOD cause a problem with camshafts?

 

[Skylarking]

I thought when idling, a DOD V8 will fire on all cylinders. This is to ensure a smooth idle. As such, I’d think DOD should have no idle induced wear.

If camshaft wear does occur when idling, I’d guess it’s some other underlying issue causing the wear.

People mainly remove DOD feature because they want a more aggressive cam profile with a higher max RPM, not because they are inherently a bad design.

 

[vr304]

The L76 DOD engines have issues with their lifters don’t they?

 

[Skylarking]

Yes, from what little I’ve read, in the USA there was an lifter tick issue but not sure whether Holden accepted that the same occurred here (possibly ostrich syndrome).

I’ve found nothing specifically about camshaft wear other than being the consequence of a failed lifter (if a badly ticking lifter is ignored).

Supposedly this tick was addressed with new DOD lifter design in 2010. Here is some info, repeated below. There is also a later PDF with pictures of the lifters.

#PIP4499B: Start Up Lifter Tick Noise After Engine Has Been Off For 2 Hours Or More - AFM Engines - keywords BQMI - (Oct 29, 2009)

Subject: Start Up Lifter Tick Noise After Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More - AFM Engines

Models: 2007 Cadillac Escalade
built before April 1, 2006 with 6.2L L92 Engine
(these engines were built with AFM Hardward but the AFM system was disabled)
2009 Buick Lacrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)
2007 Buick Rainier
2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2007-2010 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Trail Blazer
2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2007-2010 GMC Envoy, Sierra, Yukon
2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
2008-2009 Pontiac G8
2007-2009 Saab 97x
With an AFM (Active Fuel Management) V8 Engine:
(RPOs L76, L94, L99, LC9, LFA, LH6, LMG, LS4, LY5)

This PI was superseded to remove non-AFM engines from this PI because there is no longer an updated lifter in the works for non-AFM engines. Please discard PIP4499A.

Important: This PI only applies to AFM V8 engines above. It does not apply to Non-AFM Engines. If you are dealing with a Non-AFM engine that is experiencing a similar noise, please refer to the latest version of PIP4725.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

Some customers may comment on a lifter tick noise that occurs after the engine has been off for at least 2 hours and can last for several minutes. In most cases, the noise will last less than 2 seconds, which should be classified as a short duration tick noise. While in other cases, the noise may last longer than 10 seconds, which should be classified as an extended duration tick noise.

This may be the result of dirty/low engine oil. dissolved air in the oil, low internal lifter reservoir level, and/or debris in the lifters.
Recommendation/Instructions:

If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this lifter tick noise and normal oil pressure is noted during the concern, perform the following suggestions as necessary:

1. Check the oil condition and level. If it's more than 1 quart low or if poor oil quality is noted, change the oil and filter, and re-evaluate the noise. Allow at least a 2 hour soak time between start ups when re-evaluating the noise.
2. If the tick lasts long enough, perform a cylinder power balance test with the Tech 2 to cancel each fuel injector while listening to the noise. If the noise is eliminated, or greatly improved, each time a specific fuel injector is cancelled, there is most likely a concern with the related piston pin or piston to cylinder wall clearance of that cylinder. If this does not isolate a specific cylinder, continue to the rest of the steps below.
3. If an extended duration tick is experienced from more than 1 lifter, replace the oil pump and oil pump o-ring to address potential dissolved air in the oil. Generally, this will not affect oil pressure or cause obvious air bubbles in the oil that can be visually identified.
4. If an extended duration tick is experienced from a single lifter, use the information below to determine if the suspect lifter pack is equipped with Eaton lifters or Delphi lifters. Replace all of the lifters on both banks if Eaton lifters are present. Replace all of the lifters on the suspect bank if Delphi lifters are present. The new lifters from GMSPO should be Delphi lifters.
• AFM Lifters:

• 1) Eaton - 3 Slots in Tube
2) Delphi - No Slots in Tube
• Non-AFM Lifters:

• 1) Eaton - 2 Parallel Clip Wires Visible
2) Delphi - 3 Clip Wires Visible
5. If a short duration tick noise is experienced and none of the information above helps, updated AFM lifters will most likely be needed to repair the noise but they will not be available until Spring 2010 at the earliest. They were supposed to be available during the 4th quarter of 2009 but further validation work is needed. This P.I. will be updated with additional information as soon as they are available. Replacing the lifters with the ones currently in GMSPO stock may not repair a short duration tick noise.

 

[Joshc4746]

Try not let them idle.

Yes, from what little I’ve read, in the USA there was an lifter tick issue but not sure whether Holden accepted that the same occurred here (possibly ostrich syndrome).

I’ve found nothing specifically about camshaft wear other than being the consequence of a failed lifter (if a badly ticking lifter is ignored).

Supposedly this tick was addressed with new DOD lifter design in 2010. Here is some info, repeated below. There is also a later PDF with pictures of the lifters.

#PIP4499B: Start Up Lifter Tick Noise After Engine Has Been Off For 2 Hours Or More - AFM Engines - keywords BQMI - (Oct 29, 2009)

Subject: Start Up Lifter Tick Noise After Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More - AFM Engines

Models: 2007 Cadillac Escalade
built before April 1, 2006 with 6.2L L92 Engine
(these engines were built with AFM Hardward but the AFM system was disabled)
2009 Buick Lacrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)
2007 Buick Rainier
2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2007-2010 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Trail Blazer
2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2007-2010 GMC Envoy, Sierra, Yukon
2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
2008-2009 Pontiac G8
2007-2009 Saab 97x
With an AFM (Active Fuel Management) V8 Engine:
(RPOs L76, L94, L99, LC9, LFA, LH6, LMG, LS4, LY5)

This PI was superseded to remove non-AFM engines from this PI because there is no longer an updated lifter in the works for non-AFM engines. Please discard PIP4499A.

Important: This PI only applies to AFM V8 engines above. It does not apply to Non-AFM Engines. If you are dealing with a Non-AFM engine that is experiencing a similar noise, please refer to the latest version of PIP4725.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

Some customers may comment on a lifter tick noise that occurs after the engine has been off for at least 2 hours and can last for several minutes. In most cases, the noise will last less than 2 seconds, which should be classified as a short duration tick noise. While in other cases, the noise may last longer than 10 seconds, which should be classified as an extended duration tick noise.

This may be the result of dirty/low engine oil. dissolved air in the oil, low internal lifter reservoir level, and/or debris in the lifters.
Recommendation/Instructions:

If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this lifter tick noise and normal oil pressure is noted during the concern, perform the following suggestions as necessary:

1. Check the oil condition and level. If it's more than 1 quart low or if poor oil quality is noted, change the oil and filter, and re-evaluate the noise. Allow at least a 2 hour soak time between start ups when re-evaluating the noise.
2. If the tick lasts long enough, perform a cylinder power balance test with the Tech 2 to cancel each fuel injector while listening to the noise. If the noise is eliminated, or greatly improved, each time a specific fuel injector is cancelled, there is most likely a concern with the related piston pin or piston to cylinder wall clearance of that cylinder. If this does not isolate a specific cylinder, continue to the rest of the steps below.
3. If an extended duration tick is experienced from more than 1 lifter, replace the oil pump and oil pump o-ring to address potential dissolved air in the oil. Generally, this will not affect oil pressure or cause obvious air bubbles in the oil that can be visually identified.
4. If an extended duration tick is experienced from a single lifter, use the information below to determine if the suspect lifter pack is equipped with Eaton lifters or Delphi lifters. Replace all of the lifters on both banks if Eaton lifters are present. Replace all of the lifters on the suspect bank if Delphi lifters are present. The new lifters from GMSPO should be Delphi lifters.
• AFM Lifters:

• 1) Eaton - 3 Slots in Tube
2) Delphi - No Slots in Tube
• Non-AFM Lifters:

• 1) Eaton - 2 Parallel Clip Wires Visible
2) Delphi - 3 Clip Wires Visible
5. If a short duration tick noise is experienced and none of the information above helps, updated AFM lifters will most likely be needed to repair the noise but they will not be available until Spring 2010 at the earliest. They were supposed to be available during the 4th quarter of 2009 but further validation work is needed. This P.I. will be updated with additional information as soon as they are available. Replacing the lifters with the ones currently in GMSPO stock may not repair a short duration tick noise.

long story short. The only oil every one of those engines require no one uses. The difference between the modern quad cam roller bearing or new push rod. Lifters and valves sit on the cam. Back then the zinc and sulfer levels where high as the years go by the oils all change to meet newer standards the the additive percentages change. Fixing a lifter isn’t that expensive. You could
you could take rocker cover off and tighten lifter back down. When two metals touch each other one softer than the other without the proper additives they wear. Plus everyone thinks that a oil filter can last 15000km. Oil only lasts 6months it breaks down and loses it chemical properties. Diesel oil is believably better than alot of the oils i see repco and supercheap say is ok for an engine.

 

[BlackVXGTS]

Oil only lasts 6months it breaks down and loses it chemical properties.

What is the source for this so-called "fact" of yours? And does it apply if the engine is stored rather than being in use?

Did you know that 90% of facts are made up on the spot? I know because I just made that one up!

 

[krusing]

Diesel oil is believably better than alot of the oils i see repco and supercheap say is ok for an engine.

I have done a bit of research on Diesel Oil for Petrol engines,
And checked thier web sites,
And most sites say it can be used in a Petrol engines,

I have to agree, as it does have better cleaning properties for the internals,
I have been using Diesel Oil in my LY7 for a couple of years now, so to clean the sludge out, being the PO’s didn’t get it serviced after 113,000 k’s,
and the diesel oil is working as it should,
I do change the oil filter approx every 2,000 k’s,
And the amount of crap it catches is surprising.
Not thick oil, but bits of gunk that has come away from inside the block.