Car battery is not charging

[losh1971]

So what’s not to get… especially considering most forum members would recommend more frequent oil change intervals than the factory specified 15,000kms…

Funny thing is millions of modern cars run 15k oil changes and don't have the same problem. So really it doesn't come down to the 15k services. The main issue is the design flaw.

Plus the 1000s of owners who think they can get away with 50k or 100k services, or none at all.

 

[chrisp]

its not about "confidence" it is an understanding of the electronic modules and the components in them.
most of what is in the vehicle is designed to deal with load spikes/surges because of the variable voltage from the alternator but they dont do so well on undervoltage because you can only add so much capacitance to deal with it and once that is depleted you then suffer the consequences.

once the vehicle is running the alternator is providing enough current to keep things happy and that is why they recommend to keep the vehicles connected for a period and then disconnect while running.

while we can all sit here and speculate what is the best method to use we all need to accept the fact that the people that design these systems know them and when they outline a procedure for jumpstarting than it should be followed because they actually know what they are talking about while we can only speculate and make assumptions because we did not design the system.

I recall being asked to look at some expensive modules (~$5000) that kept failing in some heavy vehicles. I had a nice little sideline fixing (hundreds of!) these modules for a while. It was a design fault as these modules just weren’t designed to tolerate automotive voltages. I enquired as to what they (the vehicle manufacturer) actually specified to the manufacturer of the module. It turned out that this major US manufacture hadn’t explicitly or correctly specified that the module had to be spike tolerant. I ended up designing an add on module to filter out the spikes. These add-on modules then became an official required fitment in the service program. So I do really understand what‘s involved. And, I have firsthand experience of a major vehicle manufacturer stuffing up the supply specifications on a module.

So, when having a flat battery, I would firstly (bench) recharge that battery. If bench recharging wasn’t practical I’d do the jump start procedure but not disconnect while the cars are running. It’s small difference (to what the manual states) but one I’d personally do. Why do it the other way and (albeit remotely) risk an electronics failure.

 

[Skylarking]

Do EV's come standard with extinguishers or fire suppression systems? Asking for a friend

Are fire extinguishers mandatory on Ferraris? I hear they had a habit of bursting into flames

But to answer your friend, it was a tongue in check comment to highlight the issue of where does one stop in packing “fix it stuff” for a trip to remote outback

 

[stooge]

Just like they know their auto’s where some manufacturers consider them sealed for life

put it this way, when you rebuild an engine do you torque the head bolts up to what old mate says at the pub or the manufacturers specification?

again we can all sit here and speculate like old mate at the pub or you can follow the specifications from the people who designed it.

I recall being asked to look at some expensive modules (~$5000) that kept failing in some heavy vehicles. I had a nice little sideline fixing (hundreds of!) these modules for a while. It was a design fault as these modules just weren’t designed to tolerate automotive voltages. I enquired as to what they (the vehicle manufacturer) actually specified to the manufacturer of the module. It turned out that this major US manufacture hadn’t explicitly or correctly specified that the module had to be spike tolerant. I ended up designing an add on module to filter out the spikes. These add-on modules then became an official required fitment in the service program. So I do really understand what‘s involved. And, I have firsthand experience of a major vehicle manufacturer stuffing up the supply specifications on a module.

So, when having a flat battery, I would firstly (bench) recharge that battery. If bench recharging wasn’t practical I’d do the jump start procedure but not disconnect while the cars are running. It’s small difference (to what the manual states) but one I’d personally do. Why do it the other way and (albeit remotely) risk an electronics failure.

you cannot broadly assign one experience from one set of vehicles to every vehicle, if the manufactures guidelines call for a certain procedure then there is a reason for it.
again it is no different to any other service procedure, there is a reason these things are formulated and they vary with different vehicles which is why they take the time to provide the correct steps necessary to complete the task.

you can apply what ever theory you want to something like a jumpstart procedure but that does not mean it is the correct way to do it.
it is no different to any other service guideline from using correct torque settings to transmission servicing steps to jumpstarting, if the manual states to do it a certain way then you do it that way.

edit: over the years i have read some of the steps provided by manufacturers for all sorts of things from computers, to plasma machines, hydraulic presses to automotive applications and many times i have not agreed with the steps but i still do it that way because there has to be a reason for the steps and i know i did not design the machine so i just do it the recommended way whether i agree with it or not.

 

[lmoengnr]

put it this way, when you rebuild an engine do you torque the head bolts up to what old mate says at the pub or the manufacturers specification?

again we can all sit here and speculate like old mate at the pub or you can follow the specifications from the people who designed it.




you cannot broadly assign one experience from one set of vehicles to every vehicle, if the manufactures guidelines call for a certain procedure then there is a reason for it.
again it is no different to any other service procedure, there is a reason these things are formulated and they vary with different vehicles which is why they take the time to provide the correct steps necessary to complete the task.

you can apply what ever theory you want to something like a jumpstart procedure but that does not mean it is the correct way to do it.
it is no different to any other service guideline from using correct torque settings to transmission servicing steps to jumpstarting, if the manual states to do it a certain way then you do it that way.

 

[stooge]

thats right rip out the loctite and dacdac and get err done!!

 

[Skylarking]

put it this way, when you rebuild an engine do you torque the head bolts up to what old mate says at the pub or the manufacturers specification?

again we can all sit here and speculate like old mate at the pub or you can follow the specifications from the people who designed it.

Me personally, I do follow what the manufacturer states in their workshop manual but can supplement the tasks with extra steps where I feel it improves the outcome and quality of work.

In any case, I’m not advocating reusing old TTY bolts (without checks against max length specs provided by the manufacturer) or torquing head bolts to 3 ugga duggar’s (rather than the torque and method defined by the maker). We are talking about adding some extra steps (check battery has some voltage before jump starting and switching off both cars before disconnecting jumper leads) added into the manufacturers procedure.

Yes we can speculate whether the electronics will cope with large spikes or not, due to good or
poor design, but such isn’t relevant. I’d simply not want to take a risk that their designs are deficient… and be lumped with extra costs to replace electronics or worse still be stuck with a clueless dealer who has trouble programming an alarm clock

 

[stooge]

switching off both cars before disconnecting jumper leads

exactly, and that is a totally made up step by someone that has no clue on the development of the system at hand.
you have no idea whether it is beneficial or not to perform that step apart from it "sounding good" and the manufacturer does not state to do that so you either go with the pub test or with the manufacturer


i know which one i will go with on this topic with 30+ years of electronics servicing behind me.

 

[chrisp]

Anyone willing to start up their VE or VF and pull a lead off the battery while it is running? It’ll probably be okay as it should be a foreseeable scenario that GM designed the cars to tolerate.

I’m not volunteering.

 

[stooge]

as it should be a foreseeable scenario that GM designed the cars to tolerate.

*citation needed

will happily wait for you to produce the documentation stating that gm has designed the ve/vf to run without a battery.