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Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by josh_lock, Feb 11, 2015.
Do I need to run the charcoal canister
What dose it do ?
It collects fuel fumes (and returns them to the tank as a liquid I think (correct me if I'm wrong)), I would hazard a guess at; YES, you do need to run it.
If it rattles it's F#$%ed. As far as I'm aware, for a VS anyways, you can only buy genuine still... go figure... an 18 year old car and it still HAS to be genuine...
Well, it doesn't dose at all, it's very much awake!!! What is does do is explained in the following:
The ‘70s Shake-up – ADR 27A
In mid 1976, the federal government introduced ADR (Australian Design Rule) 27A in an attempt to reduce car emissions.
ADR 27A requires that each car built from July 1st, 1976 be fitted with a positive crankcase ventilation system, an evaporative emission control system and an exhaust gas recirculation system.
So how does ADR 27A related equipment reduce emissions, you ask? Well, the PCV system reduces the amount of unburned crankcase hydrocarbons that are released to atmosphere by redirecting these hydrocarbons into the combustion chambers. Vehicles employ a system that draws fresh air from the air cleaner assembly into the crankcase via a passage in the oil filler cap. This fresh air mixes with crankcase vapours and is drawn into the combustion chambers through a PCV valve that connects to the carburettor throttle body. For efficient operation, the PCV valve must function properly and the crankcase must be sealed (no leaks at the dipstick or oil filler).
The next part of the ADR 27A arsenal is an evaporative emission control system; approximately 20 percent of all hydrocarbon emissions are caused by evaporative losses from the fuel tank. Vehicles employ an ‘absorption-regeneration’ system which temporarily stores evaporated fuel vapour inside a charcoal canister.
EVAPORATIVE EMISSION CONTROL
The Evaporative Emission Control System (EECS) controls fuel vapours which would normally escape from the fuel tank to be consumed in the combustion process. The EECS used on VS Series Models is the charcoal canister storage method. This method transfers fuel vapour from the fuel tank to an activated carbon (charcoal) storage canister to hold vapours when the vehicle is not operating. When the engine is running, the fuel vapour is purged from the carbon element by intake air flow and consumed in the normal combustion process. The fuel tank cap is not vented to atmosphere, but is fitted with a valve to allow both pressure and vacuum relief.
The canister is a three port design. The canister is located in the engine compartment between the radiator and the battery, mounted to the front end support panel.The fuel vapour is absorbed by the charcoal in the canister. When the engine is running at idle speed, air is drawn into the canister through the atmospheric port at the top of the canister assembly. The air mixes with the vapour and the mixture is drawn into the intake manifold via the canister purge line.
The uppermost port on the canister is controlled by a PCM controlled purge solenoid valve. The solenoid valve controls the manifold vacuum signal from the throttle body. The port below the canister purge port is the vapour inlet port from the fuel tank. The single off centre port is open to the atmosphere. This system has a remote mounted canister purge control solenoid valve. The PCM operates this solenoid valve to control vacuum to the canister. Under cold engine conditions, the solenoid valve is turned "OFF" by the PCM, which blocks vacuum to the canister and prevents purge. The PCM turns "ON" the solenoid valve and allows purge:
. When the engine coolant temperature is less than 80 C, 3 minutes and 15 seconds after engine start.
. When the engine coolant temperature is greater than 80 C, 5 minutes after engine start.
. Engine is not in Decel Fuel Cutoff Mode and the throttle opening is less than 92%.
. Engine is in Closed Loop Fuel Mode.
The canister cannot be repaired, and is serviced only as an assembly. Periodically check the canister at the time or distance intervals specified in the VS Series Owner's Handbook.
Thanks mate but is it a must have what is the worst that could happen without it ?
You will get fined
It's not for a road car I building a burnout car
No worries then
Adr27a can't be right as the vs (well after 1976) comes std without egr, don't know what's going on there?
The worst case scenario is that the fuel vapors aren't run through it to the engine and burnt off safely.
Hot day, lots of vapor, someone walks past with a lit smoke or a rogue spark from the burnouts and KA-BOOM, the vapor is now taken care of and so is your car, if you're lucky you don't get bbq'd.
Is this really possible? Im pretty sure that back in the 60s or something all cars had vented fuel caps to stop the tank from over pressurising.
It's not restrictive in any way, leaving it attached won't cost you any power.
EGR = exhaust gas recirculation. You're right, the VS doesn't have EGR, but the charcoal canister doesn't deal with exhaust gasses and neither does the PCV.
Pretty sure back in the 60's the fuel wasn't quite as well refined and volatile as it is now.... but really the carbon canister makes 1/10th of sfa difference to the engine running, it's only there to relieve vapor into the engine instead of vapors hanging about elsewhere, there's no pressure relief in a sealed efi system is there? kinda figured it was sealed for a reason, but it is a commodore so anything vb-vs the vapor lines will be ####ed anyway.
I actually miss the pre 74 cars i used to own but the smell of fuel, (lack of heating and aussie ac) I do not miss since the phase to lrp and then nothing but ulp, actually had to drive them..... ah nostalgia.
Was just pointing out that that design rule isn't right
How do you mean?
Can a faulty canister cause the motor to stall at idle?
I’m chasing a “ stall and won’t start again for hours” problems... it’s doing my head in! Fuel pump seems good and doesn’t throw any fault codes on scanner ♂️♂️♂️
I doubt it. Sounds more like a CAS, if V6. If it's a V8 then there are a couple of other common problems that make it not run.
It’s a V6 and CAS already been replaced and not throwing a code
It will run occasionally and stay running if you’re giving it throttle but dies after about 30sec on idle
Could be a TPS. Sometimes CAS won't throw a code and same with TPS.
I agree with Losh, TPS sounds like the culprit.
If it happens 5 minutes after starting engine (when purge valve opens), perhaps there is a vacuum leak - hose off?
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