Commodore nameplate to remain in Holden lineup

[mwb235]

Spot on.

Said it before and I'll say it again, GM need to move Commodore into the premium segment.

So drop your evokes, execs and all that other crap and just keep Calais and SS as a base and do performance models off that.

Go for Cruze, etc as the volume models.

Three points IMHO:

(1) Just have 4 and 8 cylinder engines only - with the power that modern 4's have these days, it makes a 6 cylinder redundant.

A FWD only 4 cylinder hybrid for a base "Commodore" model (i.e. no other badge) and the Calais - similar setup to the Toyota Camry hybrid.
A RWD/AWD 8 cylinder for the Commodore SS and HSV models, optional on a new "Calais SS" model (same features/trims as a Calais, just bigger engine & upgraded structural stuff etc).

(2) Get rid of the "V" badge and just have the four models - Commodore, Commodore SS, Calais, and Calais SS. Those who want extras can order options thru HSVi.

(3) Abandon the long-standing Holden penny pinching and have better standard features. It is embarassing that Hyundai and Kia etc often have features on their cheap **** cars that Holden's don't (or won't).

 

['ssv']

Point 1: I very much doubt they are going to be designing a whole new vehicle and even if they did, they definatley wouldn't be both fwd and rwd varients avaliable.

Point 2: I doubt they would call them calais or ss or anything like the aussie built commodore.
They will have original model names unique to the brand. Imo there will be only 3 models - pox, style and sport - none of which will do anything great.

Point 3: The vf commodore is one of the most feature packed cars on the market. Kia and hyundi dont even come close.


In my opinion, its not going to be a desirable vehicle, more a car that is going to try and sell on its name alone.
think kia vs hyundi, merc vs bmw, nissan vs toyota. The new commodore is going to have no healthy competition and fail unless its something new and spectacular. But that wont happen, why would they bother putting so much R&D into a car segment that has already seen its best days.

 

[mwb235]

Hmmm maybe like mpower said, just have the Cruze for the volume models. Then have the two SS and Calais as RWD-only V8-only models.

You're probably right though, very few people want large cars these days.

 

[Reaper]

Meh I would like to see them move towards smarter technology for Australia. Call me biased, etc but drop the RWD 12lt V8 dinosaur technology and move to an AWD setup with an E85 compatible 6cyl turbo as the performance option.
Let the commodore name die strong, not some watered down FWD 4 cyl rubbish.

AWD is fine as long as it's RWD bias. Sadly I suspect any RWD variant will be from a FWD base and complete and utter rubbish. If you want a tell tail sign look at the motor. North/south then fair chance it's RWD bias. East/west then don't waste your time. Either way, I suspect snailed v6 will be what is on offer at best.

yeah because that worked so well for Ford's sales figures....

the turbo i6 was a shining light at Ford and still is. Fomocoaus's biggest problem is Dearborne ####ing them over at every turn. Kinda like Holden and Rencen tbh.

Ford did just what you said, ecoboost 4 cyl, turbo 6 and still their sales figures are terrible - why would GM copy this failing model.

They need to think of something different, figure out what people are actually buying and shift that way.

Four-cylinder Falcon flops

I don't recall anybody advocating 4cyl being the way to go into the future with the Commodore. The only post that got close was strike who suggested quite the opposite.

The effective displacement and weight is really no issue, particularly with deactivation and VVT. 6.0 weighs less than 20kg more than a Nissan 2.0, is compact (thanks to the venerable dinosaur valvetrain) and has fantastic low centre of gravity and power density (thanks to the venerable dinosaur valvetrain).
What's required on the GenV is greater geometric compression around 14:1 and combustion phasing for ethanol on an Atkinson cycle, to suit stop start and support an ancillary regenerative / kinetic return system. Permanent or 'intelligent diff' AWD is a cop-out for crap engineering, an anachronism for pathetic Asian Crossovers (terror cans). Perhaps hub motors up front would do the trick for me. That is all.

I can't see 14:1 happening for mainstream any time soon. TBH DI would be fine and the technology is in a relative infancy as a fuel delivery method. Just develop the Gen V to it's true potential. As for AWD - go drive a VY/Z AWD. It's hardly new and very good. The ESP system just directs the torque towards the wheels with most grip and it's surprising where it will get you.

Commodore is not a failure in Aussie but it's uneconomic to manufacture in Australia for a world market or that is what GM want you to believe anyway.

Even at current numbers, Holden do very well with each and every VF commodore sold. R&D is way paid off and the model mix well and truly favours the upper end of the model spectrum which is just money for jam. The problem is that when GM cancelled the successor to zeta program and all export varients Holden were literally ####ed in the arse, not to mention the routing of it's export program in the mid 2000's. Make no mistake, most of the reason Holden is closing local manufacturing lies squarely with GM and Detroit who knew better taking a very profitable local manufacturer and market leader to also ran struggling for the bottom half of top 10 within 15 years. Holden sells around 100k cars each year. 1/3 of those are in the Commodore SWB line up + Caprice & ute - all super profitable. You do the math.

I think sales stats wouldn't look so rosy if you were to compare the sales numbers on a world basis.

I think a big issue is that GM doesn't want a flagship V8 model in the US built anywhere other than the US. Re-badging a Holden as a Chev or Pontiac in the US was never going to work.

Yeah well NA knows best

The US economy has been hurting for years and I think someone has seen the light that outsourcing products to the rest of the world doesn't work and hence the reason that they are starting to increase local (US) production in favour of importing. Just look at all the trouble Boeing has had with the 787 Dreamliner, the majority of issues have been with components that were outsourced around the world.

Ps: Holden managed to put together the Camaro for about $300mill and took it to market leader quick smart for around 1/4 the price it would have cost from Detroit. Reward: shut the ####ers down!

How many overhead cam V8 RWD cars do Hyundai have

1 more than GM 2013 Genesis Product Highlights
The point is however that Hyundai see it as a niche opportunity to expand whilst GM who are dominant in the segment don't seem to understand that lots of profitable niches add up to a fair profit in total. It's a way of looking at things. Glass half full/empty type ****.

Make the commodore an electric vehicle.

To be fair, GM have one of the most usable leccy vehicles on the market. That is, it will get phenomenal range in normal urban commuting compared to it's peers. Sadly it isn't getting the kudos it deserves. In Aus it is too expensive but in NA I think it's suffering because GM is on the nose with their media too.

Spot on.

Three points IMHO:

(1) Just have 4 and 8 cylinder engines only - with the power that modern 4's have these days, it makes a 6 cylinder redundant.

A FWD only 4 cylinder hybrid for a base "Commodore" model (i.e. no other badge) and the Calais - similar setup to the Toyota Camry hybrid.
A RWD/AWD 8 cylinder for the Commodore SS and HSV models, optional on a new "Calais SS" model (same features/trims as a Calais, just bigger engine & upgraded structural stuff etc).

(2) Get rid of the "V" badge and just have the four models - Commodore, Commodore SS, Calais, and Calais SS. Those who want extras can order options thru HSVi.

(3) Abandon the long-standing Holden penny pinching and have better standard features. It is embarassing that Hyundai and Kia etc often have features on their cheap **** cars that Holden's don't (or won't).

Such as?

Hmmm maybe like mpower said, just have the Cruze for the volume models. Then have the two SS and Calais as RWD-only V8-only models.

You're probably right though, very few people want large cars these days.

Cruze is way overdue for an update and outclassed by most of it's opposition. Indications look like we will be waiting till next year for a replacement (at best) and possibly 2017 .

 

[PIR4TE]

I can't see 14:1 happening for mainstream any time soon. TBH DI would be fine and the technology is in a relative infancy as a fuel delivery method.

DI is good, yes, but not absolutely needed. I think wide authority VVT and more comp (geometric or forced induction) is all that's required for respectable efficiency gains. At this writing, most production full hybrid-electric vehicles use high comp and Atkinson cycle VVT engines to get required NA efficiency:

Ford C-Max (front wheel drive / US market) hybrid & plug-in hybrid models
Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner/Mazda Tribute electric (front- and four-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 12.4:1
Ford Fusion Hybrid/Mercury Milan Hybrid/Lincoln MKZ Hybrid electric (front-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 12.3:1
Honda Accord Plug-in Hybrid
Honda Accord Hybrid (front-wheel drive)
Hyundai Sonata Hybrid (front-wheel drive)
Infiniti M35h Hybrid (rear-wheel drive)
Kia Optima Hybrid (front-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 13:1
Lexus CT 200h (front-wheel drive)
Lexus ES 300h (front-wheel drive)
Lexus GS 450h hybrid electric (rear-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 13:1
Lexus HS 250h (front-wheel drive)
Lexus RX 450h hybrid electric (four-wheel drive)
Mazda 3 SkyActiv (front-wheel drive) with a 13:1 compression ratio (12:1 for North America)
Mazda 6 SkyActiv-G 2.5L (front-wheel drive) with a 14:1 compression ratio (13:1 for North America)
Mazda CX-5 (front- and all-wheel drive) with a 14:1 compression ratio (13:1 for North America)
Mercedes ML450 Hybrid (four-wheel drive) electric
Mercedes S400 Blue Hybrid (rear-wheel drive) electric
Toyota Camry Hybrid electric (front-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 12.5:1
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (2011 and newer)
Toyota Prius hybrid electric (front-wheel drive) with a (purely geometric) compression ratio of 13.0:1
Toyota Yaris Hybrid (front-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 13.4:1
Toyota Auris Hybrid (front-wheel drive)
Toyota Tacoma V6 (beginning in 2015 for the 2016 model year)

 

['ssv']

No matter how much make up you put on it, suck, squeeze, bang, blow is such an old technology.
Time to get with the times. Toy (rc) cars have got it right, formula e has got it right, how long is it going to take to pass onto the public market?!?!

 

[Reaper]

No matter how much make up you put on it, suck, squeeze, bang, blow is such an old technology.
Time to get with the times. Toy (rc) cars have got it right, formula e has got it right, how long is it going to take to pass onto the public market?!?!

Formula E got it right??? I tried watching one of those races. Boring as batshit. Even the crash was boring. If that is the future then motorsport as entertainment is in big trouble!