Disable traction control

[monty_vfssv]

I'd be interested to know how and why your car's traction control got you into trouble on those two occasions.

I know no system is perfect but I see traction control and stability control as two major life savers in modern cars and their good points far outweigh their bad.

I drive older cars without either or ABS, these cars are overpowered and under braked and they can be a handful in some conditions and to make things worse my reflexes are deteriorating with age and they can be both fun or frightening.

I can switch traction and stability off in my BMW and Merc but my Merc for example when in sports or track mode just goes mental when all the driver aids are switched off and can be a real pain in the bum on the street, the BMW isn't so severe.

The one thing I do like about those Euro's compared to my Redline is they are not just an on and off system, they can be switch down in increments which means I can shut them down a little to allow the car to spin and slide a bit more before the computer intervenes without having to go all out and turn them completely off.

Still for my family's sake, my own and the other road users and passengers around me while driving on public streets, I'd rather the safety of a fully functioning TC/ESP system with it's limitations over not having one at all.


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Rear end stepped out, TC intervened half way through the slide, gripped hard and sent me toward a guard rail. Dry day with a wet section of road that I didn't see. But basically lost all control of the throttle for a couple of seconds. Never had a drama with TC turned off as the vf chassis is very direct and predictable.

"The world’s best & most-skilled drivers" would never use the parameters that our TC is set to. Its slow to react and heavy when it does intervene. That's why we turn it off on track days. Chalk and cheese really.

Ive never understood why they would take the control of the throttle away from us when it's used heavily in controlling/correcting a rear wheel drive car. Maybe it's saved life's in the SUV world but I defs don't rate our clunky TC.

 

[07GTS]

ive been trying to tune my TC to suit my power level and it can be done but its alot of testing and very small changes as it can go from hardly working to full cut and u have to find the line in between, if ur power level is lower then u may get away with just using spark so would be easier to tune in but soon as u have to use TPS also its very hard to stop it from cutting a decent chunk or torque out

 

[monty_vfssv]

I’m also interested to know how you were driving so that this ‘slow and clumsy’ traction control decided you were outside safe limits and thus intervened?

If you were driving in a manner that is safe with your vehicle under control, as is the legal requirement, I’d expect you’d never come across ESC/TC/ABS operation on a public road.

I’d suspect in this case, the issue is not one of ESC/TC calibration but the mental calibration of the person behind the wheel who wants it permanently disabled.

Anyone who thinks driving like Sena/Fangio/Brock on a public road is acceptable behaviour while entertaining a moronic view that these safety measures designed to protect one from their own stupidity are the problem needs to grow up. By all means play on a race track like an adult but leave such behaviour where it should be, on a race track.

And if you insist you are so skilled that you don’t need or want ESC/TC on a modern car, I’d say you don’t have the required ‘sharing mindset’ to be on a public road. As such my view is that you should have your license canceled. Yes may be harsh but I’ve literally come across idiots like you on a public road.

Ps: well said @panhead. Isn’t the MSE mode switch a method of selectively loosening ESC/TC with track being the least intervening of the lot for track use..?

*yawn*

 

[Skylarking]

@monty_vfssv you may say “typical” and “yawn” but you’ve confirmed you were driving in an inappropriate manner that was unsafe by going into a corner too quickly causing a slide that resulted in ESC intervening. Such driving would be deemed unsafe if you found your self in a court of law should and the judge would not entertain such childish excuses the crash was caused by a wet patch and the ECS/TC intervened to harshly.

Your driving caused this, not a wet patch or ESC. But by all means go on driving that way on a public road but take the punishment when it comes.

 

[monty_vfssv]

@monty_vfssv you may say “typical” and “yawn” but you’ve confirmed you were driving in an inappropriate manner that was unsafe by going into a corner too quickly causing a slide that resulted in ESC intervening. Such driving would be deemed unsafe if you found your self in a court of law should and the judge would not entertain such childish excuses the crash was caused by a wet patch and the ECS/TC intervened to harshly.

Your driving caused this, not a wet patch or ESC. But by all means go on driving that way on a public road but take the punishment when it comes.

You are correct. Not recognising the hazard or driving to conditions would be the answer.. but what is traction control for again??

 

[Skylarking]

You are correct. Not recognising the hazard or driving to conditions would be the answer.. but what is traction control for again??

ESC & TC’s primary purpose is to save us from our own poor abilities by reduce the occurance of vehicle’s being driven outside their safe envelope. Sadly some still manage to exceed such safe envelopes as you have so aptly demonstrated. Somehow, I doubt you’ll understand so I’m out.

 

[panhead]

Isn’t the MSE mode switch a method of selectively loosening ESC/TC with track being the least intervening of the lot for track use..?

I don't know what that dial does, it may be all encompassing and allow you access to throttle, suspension, driver aid parameters or it may only adjust suspension or a power mode, I've no idea.

You'd have to ask one of those flash owners like Cuda.




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[Holden17]

I would be genuinely interested to know what % of cars wrapped around trees/telegraph poles have TC at all (as a lot seem to be older cars) or have had their TC turned off by a driver who thought s/he could do a better job at driving without it. I have always assumed, maybe incorrectly, that this type of accident is one of the most preventable when it comes to TC.

One lesson I learnt on the highway in pitch dark on a very wet night a dozen or so years ago was that you never use cruise control in those conditions...was sitting on a 100km/h and felt like I hit a slightly different depth of water and suddenly I’m aquaplaning. I’ve never experienced this before and it scared the life out of me...only read/heard about it a few times months later ie never use cruise control on a wet (as in a film of water moving across it) surface.
That was in a VE with TC enabled.

So my questions are:
1. Has TC got anything to do with this...I’m thinking not because when aquaplaning you’ve already effectively lost contact with the surface and so lost traction, so TC was never going to prevent this
2. Do more modern cruise control/ESP/traction systems (I’m thinking in more expensive ‘luxury’ vehicles) prevent what happened to me or is it still a no no to use cruise control on very wet highways?

 

[Skylarking]

@Holden17 aquaplaning is a bitch and nothing much can be done as your tyres contact patches float on a layer of water. As such, the tyres can’t interact with the road so ESC or TC can’t help much other than cut power if it recognises the condition as I expect it would.

As I expect ESC/TC would recognise aquaplaning it would cut power so using cruise control should cause no advers conditions. In a non ESC/TC vehicle, maybe you wouldn’t want to use cruise control in conditions where aquaplaning would be a high risk.

If you’re lucky, when aquaplaning, you’ll quickly loose enough speed plowing through the water with no throttle that the tyres will again make contact with the road and thus traction can be regained. Hopefully the car will be lined up with the road at that moment you regain control, hopefully, so not sure what if anything ESC/TC would do at that point as all should be OK.

I also had an aquaplaning incident many years ago where the car rotated about 5 degrees at speed on a freeway. It was a heart in mouth moment in an old non ESC/TC vehilcle. Quickly went off throttle and once the tyres made contact, it was just to continue to drive on after making a small steering correction, heart pounding away. If the car had rotated more, I think I’d have been in a world of hurt. The lot could have been avoided by slowing down like a number of other vehicles were doing in that section of road, but,... young and dumb...

As to the questions about crash stats with ESC/TC vehicles, have a read of the ESC and TC wiki which will also define the basic difference between the tech.

PS: I should add, ESC/TC/ABS can’t alter the laws of physics. You are as dependant those small tyre contact patches of around four hands in total (in most cases) to control the dynamics of a 1800kg vehicle.

 

[stooge]

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One lesson I learnt on the highway in pitch dark on a very wet night a dozen or so years ago was that you never use cruise control in those conditions...was sitting on a 100km/h and felt like I hit a slightly different depth of water and suddenly I’m aquaplaning.

I am not sure if the vf does this but the tc/esc system in the colorado(2016) will disable cruise control if you hit a puddle or lose traction.