Does untuned better flowing intake result in loss of low end torque

[lmoengnr]

I reckon between 10-15 kw.

The current system was used by HSV. With their tune and exhaust system HSV 340 LS3 was making abot 25kw extra compared to SS LS3. I would imagine HSV tune was conservative due to emissions etc

The 340 tune was the last of the Euro 4 tunes, the SS LS3 is a Euro 5 tune.
HSV went to the LSA for Euro 5.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The 340 tune was the last of the Euro 4 tunes, the SS LS3 is a Euro 5 tune.
HSV went to the LSA for Euro 5.

Yes.

The difference is not that big given that hsv has better flowing exhaust system too.. about 20rwkw

However, my guess is that stock custom tuned HSV would see better gains than stock tuned SS

 

[3rspecB]

Yes.
The difference is not that big given that hsv has better flowing exhaust system too.. about 20rwkw
However, my guess is that stock custom tuned HSV would see better gains than stock tuned SS

I had the HSV 340kw tune applied to my 17 manual Redline along with the HSV 2.5"headers/cats and mid section. I went with Rotofab intake. Rolling drags with my mates stock 17 manual Redline, I would creep away from him in all gears. I then had the tune fiddled with via road tunning. We ran each other again (rolling) and I would comfortably walk away from him.
I have now installed full aftermarket exhaust with stock mufflers (tune is as before). We run again, and I pulled away from him that little bit better In each gear. I'm intending to get dyno tune to extract maximum benefits as road tune can only do so much.

So in my opinion, their is a measurable difference between the 304kw Holden setup and the 340kw HSV setup. Also we both run 98fuel.

 

[stuartj]

You're not going to gain even 10rwkw by using a OTR. Maybe 2.

My first post here so apologies for any mistakes on protocol. C and V put a VCM OTR and tune on my 2009 clubsport auto 4 years ago and it went from 210rwkw to 256rwkw. Everthing else stock. Gets 9.5L/100 on Highway with air co off on a recent trip to Canberra.

 

[J_D 2.0]

Not a bad comparo but they should have tuned the stock setup as well to see what could be gained just from tuning the factory setup. If the difference between the filters was only 4kw or so without tuning I would expect the difference between the factory set up and the OTR setups would only be 4kw with tuning.

Makes the 500 odd bucks you’ll pay for a VCM OTR the most expensive 4kws you’ll ever pay for!

 

[Skylarking]

My first post here so apologies for any mistakes on protocol. C and V put a VCM OTR and tune on my 2009 clubsport auto 4 years ago and it went from 210rwkw to 256rwkw. Everthing else stock. Gets 9.5L/100 on Highway with air co off on a recent trip to Canberra.

It would have been interesting to have a custom tune done before any mechanical mods. Yes it sounds odd but that way you can compare dyno results of stock mechanicals/stock tune with stock mechanicals/custom tune. You’d be able to see what a custom tune (which reduces factory safety margins, has less concern with pollution laws and maybe mandates premium fuels) would bring to the game in terms of a power boost.

You’d then have a base line which you can use to compare via another dyno run to see what the addition of OTR CAI to the game above the previous custom tune. But with the extra air, maybe you’d need another custom tune to maximise the OTR CAI and a dyno run following would be the most definitive method to answer what a specific component in isolation brings to the game...

Stuff like this used to be within car magazines and was rather informative... Adding hardware and custom tune at the same time doesn’t really answer the question of what a OTR CAI brings to the table...

PS: beaten to the point by J_D 2.0

 

[Ron Burgundy]

It would have been interesting to have a custom tune done before any mechanical mods. Yes it sounds odd but that way you can compare dyno results of stock mechanicals/stock tune with stock mechanicals/custom tune. You’d be able to see what a custom tune (which reduces factory safety margins, has less concern with pollution laws and maybe mandates premium fuels) would bring to the game in terms of a power boost.

You’d then have a base line which you can use to compare via another dyno run to see what the addition of OTR CAI to the game above the previous custom tune. But with the extra air, maybe you’d need another custom tune to maximise the OTR CAI and a dyno run following would be the most definitive method to answer what a specific component in isolation brings to the game...

Stuff like this used to be within car magazines and was rather informative... Adding hardware and custom tune at the same time doesn’t really answer the question of what a OTR CAI brings to the table...

PS: beaten to the point by J_D 2.0

I agree with this. That would be the only way to confidently measure any gain from an intake mod. I suspect tune only (no mods) account for at least 1/2 of these gains...

 

[07GTS]

Not a bad comparo but they should have tuned the stock setup as well to see what could be gained just from tuning the factory setup. If the difference between the filters was only 4kw or so without tuning I would expect the difference between the factory set up and the OTR setups would only be 4kw with tuning.

Makes the 500 odd bucks you’ll pay for a VCM OTR the most expensive 4kws you’ll ever pay for!

alot of people think that most of the power is in the tune but its not, just a tune dosnt add any extra airflow in and or out of the engine it just refines what is going into it so only timing (very little stock is quite good timing) and the removal of the torque management does the biggest feel and lean the fuel out for better power AFR also adds to what u can feel, for example with any intake system just turn key on and see what the MAP sensor reads (around 102kpa) now when u go WOT if the MAP sensor shows that same number u dont have any restrictions but if its lower at any point that shows a intake/manifold restriction, would have been good to show some of that for each intake setup

 

[J_D 2.0]

alot of people think that most of the power is in the tune but its not, just a tune dosnt add any extra airflow in and or out of the engine it just refines what is going into it so only timing (very little stock is quite good timing) and the removal of the torque management does the biggest feel and lean the fuel out for better power AFR also adds to what u can feel, for example with any intake system just turn key on and see what the MAP sensor reads (around 102kpa) now when u go WOT if the MAP sensor shows that same number u dont have any restrictions but if its lower at any point that shows a intake/manifold restriction, would have been good to show some of that for each intake setup

If that’s the case then why does just adding the OTR without a tune only result in a 4kw gain? The MAF should recognise the extra airflow coming in and fuel up accordingly even on a factory tune.

I highly suspect the video is being selective with its facts. They were in the business (not anymore according to google) of selling upgrades so they arent about to say you can get 90% of your power from just a dyno tune and not pay 500 bucks for a OTR.

 

[07GTS]

If that’s the case then why does just adding the OTR without a tune only result in a 4kw gain? The MAF should recognise the extra airflow coming in and fuel up accordingly even on a factory tune.

I highly suspect the video is being selective with its facts. They were in the business (not anymore according to google) of selling upgrades so they arent about to say you can get 90% of your power from just a dyno tune and not pay 500 bucks for a OTR.

the vcm OTR was 22kw gain without a tune, then more then likely gained the extra 20kw because the TM wasnt removing timing from the change in airflow it saw, if the tune was set without any TM torque reduction from factory the gains would be minimal from the tune but more from the OTR as even adding it to a stock tune can take out even more timing because it has even more torque to deal with and remove, if the limit is 200nm torque and u add more airflow it will increase the torque output so it will then have to remove even more timing to get back to the same 200nm limit,
i prob should have added once u are tuned then adding performance parts makes the bigger difference then the tune, the factory tune has limits that need to be removed to make use of any added airflow, also changing the intake then needs the MAF to be adjusted as it only suits the factory intake for fueling, the MAF dosnt tell the ecu how much air is flowing in its not a set figure, the frequency it puts out is against a table u can adjust that then tells the ecu how much airflow is going in so if u use a bigger intake diameter it will slow the airflow over the maf so it will read lower then it should so then has to be adjusted in the tune