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ecotec or alloytec

Discussion in 'Just Commodores Polls' started by fuzzy2308, Nov 21, 2008.

ecotec or alloytec

  1. ecotec is better

    61.5%
  2. alloytec is better

    38.5%
  1. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    My missus drove a VE Omega and said it was a slug. It has the same 4L60e box as the ecotec, makes the similar power to your 190 alloytec (180kw/330Nm torque). She said she didn't have the confidence to nail it at an intersection to try and get a gap like she could in her own car. Funny isn't it.

    Admittedly, her VS goes a lot better than stock. I drove VX L67 (standard supercharged engine) recently and it wasn't any faster than her VS.
     
  2. WazzaVN

    WazzaVN Wazza VN

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  3. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    I drove an VZ Acclaim just before I bought the SV6 and it wasn't the best down mainly to the 4 speed auto , but the VE omegas which while still a 4 speed is a bit better than it was , but still missing a ratio or two I think . Personally , I think the Alloytecs , should never have been mated to the 4L60 E , they are better matched to the Strasbourg 5 speed in the VZ SV 6 , and Statesman range , and 6 speed auto's that are in the VE SV6 models , this is down in part to the active shift feature , which is fun on a twisty windy road .



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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  4. Pollushon

    Pollushon Boost gives me a bar....

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    I think immortality and 665 make a good point about the width of gears on the 4L, the Eco's torque makes better use then the Alloytec because it's lower down. Even boosted second gear can be my Achilles heel, from around 50kmh when first becomes pointless it wallows like a wind up toy til it picks up, whereas if I can use first for pickup it's weaponised, lurching up to 75, or kicking back to second at 80 or so.

    That's why I'm going a 3.9. I would imagine an Alloytec needs its tits revved to go anywhere.
     
  5. delcowizzid

    delcowizzid on holiday

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    Ive only driven one alloytech and it **** all over any ecotec ive ever driven instant torque and plenty of overtaking power

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  6. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    That's what I think as well , every one got different opinions on them , my only gripe is that they are not as easy to work on as the ecotec .
     
  7. Pollushon

    Pollushon Boost gives me a bar....

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    What box did it have?
     
  8. delcowizzid

    delcowizzid on holiday

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    Was auto 4 speed i think not up on the alloytec knowledge lol was a damn nice car to drive

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  9. Pollushon

    Pollushon Boost gives me a bar....

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    Interesting. I've been in (but never driven) a mates VZ Alloy with 4L and while I'd say maybe it's quicker than my Eco was pre boost we'd be talking a bees peen, had mega wallow. 75k on the odo and always maintained, it wasn't a POS.

    We had a 5L in the work VE and that seemed a tonne better.

    Maybe Holden just sucked at consistency, lol.
     
  10. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Unless it was a povo pack omega or ute it would probably have a 5 speed auto.

    The thing is, the alloytec makes it's peak power a lot earlier than the ecotec (2800rpm Vs 3600rpm) due to that fancy intake manifold so in theory it should be a much livelier engine, yet in practice it doesn't seem to be when coupled to the same transmission as the ecotec.

    The biggest improvement Holden made was the 5 and 6 speed transmissions coupled to the new engines.

    I'm not saying the alloytec isn't a good engine, however for all the technology it has over the ecotec it wasn't the big step up that I would have expected it to be. And then you need to careful buying 2nd hand as the earlier alloytec engines do have issues with the timing chains stretching which is a very costly exercise if they do need to be replaced. I still think it was a mistake to loose the extra displacement the ecotec had.
     
  11. Pollushon

    Pollushon Boost gives me a bar....

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    Factor in the latest Raptor blower tech and the Alloytec wins hands down.

    $5k on the Eco = 180 rwkw.
    $5.8k on the Alloy = 250 rwkw.

    It'll cost another $2.5 on the Eco for a hybrid compressor and intercooling to attain 240 rwkw on a good day. That said in a car like a VS it's pretty savage.

    Tim has a VZ just shy of 300 rwkw. That's full of win.
     
  12. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    TBH, the early alloytec raptor kits didn't make anywhere that sort of power. It's only recently that the new raptor kits have started making good power. Since the new raptor blowers with billet impellers that flow substantially better.

    The Reason is that now the raptor can keep up with the alloytec engines at the higher revs. The old raptor V with standard 10psi pulley was max'd out on a alloytec at the higher revs. there is a reason why Raptor stopped making those kits, simply because the didn't perform as well as issues with the early kits in relation to placement, piping and intercooling.
     
  13. Pollushon

    Pollushon Boost gives me a bar....

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    Well yeah, no offense to Tim, but I don't think it'd take a genius to figure that a blower designed for an old school Buick wouldn't be efficient on a modern ohc, 4 valve Alloytec.

    Same would apply in reverse. Point is they're capitalizing on what this thing can do now, and it's way more than an Eco.
     
  14. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Has anybody tested the new raptor on an ecotec? I'm sure there numbers will come up as well.

    I'm also not 100% on a couple of those dyno graphs that have been posted as the power runs were done in 2nd which will change the results a bit.
     
  15. Pollushon

    Pollushon Boost gives me a bar....

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    Maybe, that's not a bad idea, worth posting on his thread anyway, maybe Tim will send me a compressor to test ;-)
     
  16. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    This might help , see list of effected engines that are prone to timing stretch, open image , then click it again to enlarge .
     

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  17. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Be interesting to see what Holden NZ says about it. I'm sure if you were the original owner you could probably get it done, however if it was on sold I'd be a bit more worried.
     
  18. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    Not really , Iv'e the checked numbers against my own , and mines , one of the earlier 9.525mm chains , as it says its a random problem , but still a problem that might crop up , on 7.7 mm chains , which I believe were fitted as cost cutting measure , God knows why because they went back to the 9.525 mm chains when the issue reared its head .Iv'e been meaning to ask at my local dealer , if they have fixed any yet , and more importantly , what $$$$ .
     
  19. nasaman

    nasaman Nasa

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    Driving cars is one thing working on them is another thing. Drivers would probably favor the alloytec however mechanics would likely favor the ecotec.
    I just pulled down an ecotec that was driven so hard No 2 piston was melting away. A few slides of the hone later and that cylinder was ready for a new pot.
    Try that with an alloytec. They don't call them alloytec because they are made out of platinum you know. See how much you love alloytec when you feel a bolt in the block
    stripping thread on the way out.
     
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  20. MR VXS2

    MR VXS2 Member

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    Reliable. Simple to work on and parts are cheap. Performance is good enough for what I need. Can break down in any town in Australia and get parts the same day, just about.

    Id go ECOTEC.
     
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