HELP! I think I bought a dud

[Bubbles86]

Hoping this is ok to post as I need some help/feedback on what to do next and I have no idea where to go next!!

I bought my VE brand new in October 2011. About March last year I started experiencing cold start issues. This would occur on a cold morning or if the vehicle had been parked in the same spot for 9+ hours.

The car was still under new car warranty so I took it to the local dealership, where they advised it needed a new battery. This fixed the problem for a few days before it returned again. They then advised the fuel pump needed replacing. Replaced that and it was good for up to a week. The mechanic at this point told me to wait for a full system check and then some before starting. I tried anything and everything that was asked of me. At one point the mechanic told me they dont actually go looking for issues, they follow a check list and just replace stuff until the issue resolves itself.

About 2 weeks after the fuel pump was replaced it went back in and they advised the injectors needed replacing. This fixed the problem for 10 months (with some minor starting issues in between but nothing bad enough to take it in to get checked out as it happened so sporadically).

Late April/early May this year, we got a cold snap and the starting issue returned. The dealership couldn't find an issue after trying to start it 2 days in a row. I allowed for 1 hour of diagnostic testing before I was told they wanted to keep running as nothing was showing up, at $165 an hour I wouldnt approve so I took it home feeling defeated. No more than 3 days (a weekend) later the car started shaking on start up worse then before. (Should note here the new car warranty ended late last year so the issue is now happening outside of the new car warranty time frame).

The vehicle has now been in with the dealership for on going diagnostics for 2 weeks, where they've replaced the starter motor and now think it could be the fuel - really I dont think they have a clue whats wrong! I contacted GMH last year and have opened the same customer care case again and have demanded they assist with providing a specialist to solve the issue - technical support have been assisting the local dealership. At this stage I haven't had to pay for anything apart from a diagnostic fee on the first visit.

I've followed the recommended manufacturers guidelines since owning the vehicle. The vehicle has always had premium unleaded in the vehicle until recently when I changed to E85 where I noticed a huge difference in performance - E85 is also the recommended fuel for this vehicle. Now the dealership wants to put 98 octane in it as they think this is the issue.

I think they're clutching at straws as they don't have any idea whats actually wrong with it.

So here are my questions:

- Has anyone had anything similar with their vehicle and/or know what the issue is?
- Has anyone taken the matter further and written a letter of complaint to the dealership?
- Taken this further again by going to the ACCC/Fair Trading and asked for their assistance?
- Seek legal advice?

I just don't know where or what to do to next. Hope someone has some advice

Thank you!!!

 

[SnowDoggyDogg]

Yup.
Same issue on e85 in the "cold" winter here on the Gold Coast. I don't run it anymore in the winter as a full tank (only 50/50 mix with 98 RON) and the car is much happier.
My local Holden head mechanic at the dealership told me the car doesn't take the fuel. I pointed to the badge, the book and inside the fuel cap that says otherwise. He's an idiot.
I imagine that a tune would sort out my problem but I'm unwilling to commit to it until I do some other power upgrades.

 

[lmoengnr]

I just don't know where or what to do to next. Hope someone has some advice

My advice, if you can, is to try another dealer...

 

[lcb__]

I have found this rather helpful! Just wondering tho is E85 contains upto 85% ethanol? It's not the same as the E10? Right? So if I fill up my calais with the E10 it's not the same as E85 and I should get a rough start on a cold morning?

 

[SnowDoggyDogg]

E10 has up to 10% ethanol (minimum of 90% petrol) e85 up to 85% ethanol (minimum of 15% petrol). The petrol grade content of the ethanol fuels (e10 - e85) is 91 RON I believe.
From what I gather, the following is true of ethanol fuels:
The ethanol content in your fuel requires a greater amount of liquid volume compared to petrol to burn due to having lower calories content per same volume of fuel. This is why the ethanol flex fuel cars have bigger pumps and injectors (to deliver more fuel when the ethanol content is higher). It's also why you use more ethanol blended fuel compared to conventional petrol.
If the fuel sensor that is reading the ethanol content isn't working or the fuel calculation tables in the ECU aren't correct in dishing out the appropriate amount of fuel when running ethanol content fuel you're going to get the rough idle, shuddering, sputtering and the car can or will stop on cold starts and on cold days.
The Caltex flex fuel blend gives a lower ethanol percent blend (e70ish) in winter (and only down south too maybe?) for the above ambient cold reason while United e85 is always closer to 85% regardless of season or geographic location.
Ethanol fuel burns at a lower temperature and is easier on your engine's components for that reason as well as burning cleaner and leaving less carbon. The ethanol is also made locally in NSW, VIC or QLD. It's also more resistant to knock and has great benefits for force fed (turbo or supercharged) and high compression engines. It's why it's a performance fuel favorite and the true RON rating of United e85 is something like 105 RON (compared 98, 95, 91 petrol based grades).
Personally I like the fuel but my e85 capable 2012 VE SSV does not. I believe a retuned ecu would go a long way to fixing the issues that my car from the factory has with e85. I'll only consider it when I need a retune due to power upgrades to the intake/cam/headers+cats/etc.

 

[Micaxe]

I have heard about E85 cold starting issues, & it mentioned it in a manual on a previous car I've had, went like a rocket when I tried it in summer (less evaporation!)
Looks like that might be your issue.

 

[Benboy]

If you or a family member are paid up members of an Auto Club (RAA, RACV, RACQ, NRMA etc) arrange for a mobile mechanic to check the vehicle. Otherwise book it into their workshops for a full diagnostic. If you are not a financial member I suggest you join as any subscription will eventually be heaps cheaper than continuing to pay out money to a dealer that cannot identify or doesn't know how to identify said problem(s). Good luck

 

[SnowDoggyDogg]

RACQ looked at mine several times and they were unable to diagnose. I think it's telling that Holden have quietly dropped the e85 capability this model year.

 

[Bubbles86]

Another dealer has done all my services in the past so it is possible but the local mob have been dealing with this issue as it only happens on first start so it could be a waste of a trip as the other dealership is 1 hour away. However if this continues I will be going to GMH and asking them to make it happen.

The vehicle originally had 98 in it when these things first started happening so I doubt it could be that. We don't have a lot of options for fuel in town so Im worried if I get stuck on one type of fuel this issue could continue.

Has anyone gone ahead with requesting a replacement/refund?? Would really like to speak to someone who has.

 

[phillmac]

Run nothing but PB Ultimate 98 for 3 weeks or so to see if it is the issue. I know of people that have to run 98 fuel and the dealer monkeys have no idea what the problem is.
You have to keep pushing them and never give up and go away like they are waiting for. Any of these Aussie cars should run on any fuel, just not E85 unless recommended.
My 11 mod has never had a fuel issue and I alternate between a tank of each fuel type.