HELP, i'm getting rorted by my mechanic!

[vq~gangsta]

Hey everyone, thanks for all your advice so far

I admit that some latent fault from the original rebuild such as a dodgey drum could have contribute to all this, I mean the trans was rebuilt twice, and still functioned like a piece of s*#t!

So anyway, here's where I am so far... I have my court date set for mid July- as if I haven't waited long enough all ready! I've just had to make discovery of the documents i'm going to rely on in court, which is where you have to show your opponent any evidence that you want to show the magistrate.

After the second rebuild I told him that the CV cable was hooked up wrong, and that the torque converter didn't seem to be locking up anymore. I did some reading on the internet, and found numerous web sites that sited that the improper installation of the CV (kick-down) cable can cause major faults in the way the transmission operates, and dramatically reduce it's life span. The same thing goes for when the torque converter clutch stops locking up. I've sited a bunch of these sites the technical information for my case.

I got send the documents he's planning to use against me, and it appear's he's getting quite desperate indeeed- He's got the mechanic that worked on my transmission to say that he found mounds of burnt rubber on the guards and that i was complaining to him that it wouldn't work at maximum throttle and max rpm, trying to make it seem like i was using the car for burnouts at speedway park or something like that.

I can refute this claim pretty easily, based on the fact that i was arguing my ass off with this guy trying to get him to believe that i didn't abuse the trans and that something else was causing all the stuff to go wrong. He could have ended the debate pretty damb easily by simply showing me the proof i'd abused the car and then i wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Also, the fact that he rebuilt it under warranty, even though he apparently had proof i'd abused the trans... gimmie a break! If he had proof i'd abused the car i don't think he would have wasted his time or parts on rebuilding it again.

Also, this mechanic also said that he couldn't correct the problems with the trans because i had a dodgey throttle cable- the cable had stretched (as many do) so i had tied a knot in it to take up the slack.

Now first of all, it wouldn't have mattered at all, for two reasons.
1) It's normal for the throttle cable to have slack in it
2) All the sensors such as the TV cable and the throttle position sensor work INDEPENDENTLY of the accellerator pedel and cable. Whether the throttle is moved by a tight cable, a loose cable, a shoe lace, a human hand or a remote controlled servo, it WILL NOT effect the operation of the ECU or the transmission.
Anyone PLEASE, correct me if i'm wrong before i refer to this in court -i think it may be proof that their mechanics don't know S*#T!

Second, i got a brand spanking new throttle cable installed as soon as i could afford it (about 2 weeks later), took it back to them, and they STILL couldn't get it to shift right.

He's also gotten a written report from the place that did the torque converter, saying that they have seen quite a few broken torque converter snouts over the years that have always been on cores that were badly overheated and worn, of vehicles that had suffered from repeat abuse caused by changing gears inappropriately, street racing, burnouts ect. In their 'expert' opinion the damage was caused by on/off shock loads caused by harsh gear changing and more commonly forward backward burnouts as per the way they are done at speedway city.

Now, i don't even know where to start with refuting this claim, there's so much to work with! For starters if i was involved in street racing and burn out comps there'd surely be some proof for someone that could be bothered looking for it- registrations for burn out comps, police records, and the fact that my dad would kick my arse for abusing my car when it's often the case that i have to borrow money from him to fix the bloody thing or replace the tyres... so my dad can testify to that.

Also, just before the second rebuild the car wasn't changing up gears until it reached red line, then it would engage the clutch for about half a second then it would SLAM into gear with a massive chirpy that made me worry that it was going to blow my diff.

Now, is it just me, or does that sound like a massive on/off shock load to you? And i'll bet my arse they used the same damaged torque converter on the second rebuild, which eventually failed 10 months later.

Well, now i'm at the sage where i need to compile my evidence to contest his claims. Any advice would me much appreciated, you've all been very helpful so far. :thumbsup:

Thanks heaps gang,

-D

 

[Mr_Slim]

mate i'm going to be 100% honest with you here. i don't think you have a great case, and to be honest i'd be surprised if you win.

in saying that, i'm not saying you're wrong, in fact i'm inclined to believe you - a lot of mechanics out there are dodgy. however in this situation, your case really is not strong.

let's put it this way - i know a little bit about cars. not a great deal, but more than the average guy. Probably more than the magistrate you will see. 1/2 of the evidence you have produced in this thread went right over my head. Do you think the magistrate will understand it? quite likely the magistrate will sit there and nod his head, but not understand a word you're saying.

However the mechanic has evidence the magistrate will understand. He has evidence from 2 seperate businesses saying that evidence suggests you abused the transmission. Now that is some really damning evidence. Also i assume that you have tried to find other references of the mechanic's quality? has anyone complained about him before? if i was the mechanic i would be showing the court my log books, showing repeat customers, and i'd be showing my profit/loss statements, showing i'm doing a good business. All of this working against you.

In regards to the Trade Practices Act, yes you're right - goods have to be of a merchantible quality. however what he will claim is that they were of a merchantible quality, however you pushed them hard enough that they broke 7mths later. Prime example - V8 supercar drivers will build cars that can't even make it half way through the Bathurst 1000. Were the parts of merchantible quality? Yes. But why did they fail? because they were pushed incredibly hard. Obviously you don't push the car as hard as a racing car, but you also lasted 7mths compared to 1day, and your car is 16yrs old vs 1 day old.

Civil law, which you are working with here, works on the basis of the "balance of probabilities" - eg. the magistrate / judge will decide the case on who is probably right. Compare this to criminal law which is "beyond a reasonable doubt". In this case, the mechanic only has to prove what "probably" is the case, and that's good enough.


Basically the situation is:
You have technical evidence, mainly circumstantial, that suggests that he may have used inferior parts.
The mechanic has years of experience, a good record, sworn testimonies from non-associated businesses all suggesting that you are in the wrong.

my advice would be to present evidence, and i mean real evidence, suggesting that you are a good driver and not a burnout king. get your car checked over by another mechanic, get a testimony that you're engine, your diff, your joints are ok. get a testimony from a tyre / wheel specialist saying they are certain the tyres are in good nick, despite doing more than 1000km (eg you didn't go burning rubber and then buying some new ones). Get testimony from a reputable transmission specialist, backing up everything you have said in this thread. present evidence showing your mindstate as well - why would you not do burnouts? tight budget, can't afford new parts, you need the car for work, you need your license etc. (this last sentence isn't great, the magistrate may just think your bull****ting but hey everything helps)


Mate i'd love to say that you will go in there and win, but on the balance of probabilities, he has got you well and truly beat in my opinion.
I wish you all the luck in the world, because you may be telling the truth. but on the face of it mate, its a very very hard win. Good luck though :thumbsup:

 

[shrekVK]

hope the other lawyer doesnt find this thread... heard bout a suby dealership finding a thread of a guy that publicly announced wat he did in his car and that he wanted to claim all this damage under warranty....

 

[vq~gangsta]

I'm not sure what ur referring to, as far as I know i haven't done anything wrong, have I?

 

[Mr_Slim]

I'm not sure what ur referring to, as far as I know i haven't done anything wrong, have I?

we're sure you haven't, and hopefully in this case it doesn't apply. But if the defendant's lawyer (if he has one) looks on this site and sees that it is skewed towards vehicle modification, performance, etc. they may try and use it against you in the case.

In your defence i would be saying that this site is for Commodore enthusiasts, people who take care of their cars. not people who go out there and ruin their transmission.

I'm assuming you don't know anyone who is a solicitor etc? i would be going to them and getting some advice here. If in the event you lose, what costs do you have to pay? Obviously you have all your own costs, but quite often in civil cases you will be forced to pay all the defendants costs. You dragged them to court when they were in the right (according to the law anyway) and they shouldn't have to pay for it. If they hire a lawyer, you pay for him. If he loses business through attending court, you could be up for that too.

Mate in all honesty i would encourage you to speak to a solicitor. and not some dodgy lawyer works on money down and makes you pay for him just to turn up. speak to one of those "you don't pay unless you win" lawyers, and just present him / her with all the information. Don't skew the information to make it sound better for you - present every piece of evidence you have, both yours and the mecahnics. That way the solicitor can see all the information, just as the judge / magistrate will. Just ask them, is it worth going to court? even if you are in the right, you may be worth cutting your losses here mate.

i know your pride and dignity is telling you to sue (in your position i'd be tempted to do the exact same thing) but sometimes there are cases you just have to accept that life screws you over. Sucks huh

But look, as i said earlier mate i'm still hoping you get the bastard. Assuming you are telling the truth and don't drop it into gear at 5,000rpm and you are in fact right. in that case, it would be great to see you go on and win. But i think you'd best hear from someone that there is a very very good chance you won't win, and you should be prepared for that. Better than getting in there and getting smashed and having no defence.

Good luck with it mate, let us know how you go with a solicitor, should you decide to speak to one.

 

[Mr_Slim]

By the way, Mods, i think this should be moved to the Pub?

Thanks

 

[vq~gangsta]

Thanks heaps for your advice Slim, you've obviously put a lot of thought and time into it. I definately see where you're coming from, and i know that if i don't put a REALLY good case together i've got no chance at all. As much as it would suck to loose, and maybe end up having to pay extra money for lost time ect, i've already lost $2500 of money that wasn't even mine, i had to borrow it off my parents and I'm still paying it off. Another hundred dollars for a few hours of his time really isn't going to matter in the long run. And yeah, pride and dignity proberbly have something to do with it too.

I've gotten advice from Legal Services and they told me that they think I have a good case, but obviously couldn't make any guarantees. The main card i need to play is that the transmisison was lemon from the start, and was never in a state of merchantable quality, which negates all the terms and conditions of the warranty.

I know that I have an absolutely spastic amount of incomprehensible technical information that i need to put together into a logical argument, but in all honesty it's nothing I haven't done before. I had to write a thesis on interactions between plasmacytoid dendritic-cells and eosinophils for my honours degree, if that didn't prepare me for presenting massive amounts of information, bringing facts together and forming a convincing argument, then I don't think anything will.

Still though, to some extent it may just come down to the magistrate i get on the day. Even if i put forward the best case i possibly can, i'm willing to accept that my odds of success are still only 50/50.

As i said, i've already lost $2500, i may as well at least try.

Oh, and i would have thought this thread has enough technical information about the TH700r4, TPS and TV-valve to disqualify it from the pub... if anything, at least i've learn't a lot more about how my car works from this court case.

-cheers

 

[minux]

All you need to do is present what you have so a 5 year old understands what you are saying, do this and you wont have an issue.

 

[vq~gangsta]

Thanks for the advice minxus, i think i'll try to have some sort of covering letter that states things in very basic terms, and then some well organised technical information to back up what i'm saying.

I've also taken your advice Slim, and i'm going to get a letter from my Honours supervisor that i was in no position to abuse my car as i was reliant upon it for my studies, and would not be able to afford constant maintainance.

Just to clarrify, his evidence isn't QUITE as good as you thought slim... The statements aren't sworn, and they aren't from non-bias parties- one is from his former employee, and the other is from the business he uses to do his torque converters. He does however have evidence of at least one happy customer.

-cheers

 

[Mr_Slim]

I've also taken your advice Slim, and i'm going to get a letter from my Honours supervisor that i was in no position to abuse my car as i was reliant upon it for my studies, and would not be able to afford constant maintainance.

Just to clarrify, his evidence isn't QUITE as good as you thought slim... The statements aren't sworn, and they aren't from non-bias parties- one is from his former employee, and the other is from the business he uses to do his torque converters. He does however have evidence of at least one happy customer.

-cheers

it sounds like you may have a better case now, with his evidence not being exactly 100% independant.

and i know i'm probably sounding very negative, but if i were in your shoes i would probably do the same as you too. i would be pursuing it, especially if total cost is only a few hundred.

good luck with it mate