Holden Commodore Limited Edition models

[Anthony121]

I think part of the problem was offering the limited editions for dealers to buy .
I approached a Holden dealer in western Sudney way back in April last year with a preliminary enquiry about a car . Told very emphatically that there was no way a Director was an option .All Sold . They are now selling one !
I can only assume some dealers out there put there name down for these cars , held them back with the idea that the price will go up later in the year . Suddenly we see them on the dealers lot . Maybe someone else has a better theory . Bit like the private guys who have no interest in the real value of these cars to some of us and are now trying to sell for quick profit .

Maybe extra cars were released. I know Preston Motors Essendon now has two Directors in the front window and previously was only one but they had suck a high price tag on them no one would pay that much. These dealers were being too greedy.

 

[Skylarking]

It's nice here in winter. We get sub zero temps. But yeah, cooling would be awesome. I will investigate a retro fit of this further, when time permits.

In theory it should be possible to source wiring, buttons, seat cooling inserts, etc from the Chevy SS where the mechanical retrofit into the MSE should be relatively simple. But it's the BMC and other softaware that may stop us as seat heater/cooler may be linked to cabin climate control system in some way. Heck i was shocked to read in a thread on installing DRL in an Evoke that it wasn't a simple cable job.

So i'd consider the same if reasonably priced but not sure how much Holden has locked us out of our verhicles with software controlling so much of the car. Last time i did vehicle mods, EFI and the radio were about the only electronics in the vehicle

 

[EternityDre]

In theory it should be possible to source wiring, buttons, seat cooling inserts, etc from the Chevy SS where the mechanical retrofit into the MSE should be relatively simple. But it's the BMC and other softaware that may stop us as seat heater/cooler may be linked to cabin climate control system in some way. Heck i was shocked to read in a thread on installing DRL in an Evoke that it wasn't a simple cable job.

So i'd consider the same if reasonably priced but not sure how much Holden has locked us out of our verhicles with software controlling so much of the car. Last time i did vehicle mods, EFI and the radio were about the only electronics in the vehicle

Someone with an inside source posted earlier in this thread about the seat cooling. Apparently the Chevy SS seat cooling is somehow in a LHD configuration and putting it into our RHD cars wasn't just plug and play and would have required significant re-engineering. Not really sure what to make of that but that's what's been put on the table as an explanation.

 

[Skylarking]

Bummer.
Is the seat cooling based on cooled air being pumped into the seat base and seat back or is it like a peltier cooling plate? I wonder if someone can get pics of this feature from the US workshop manual?

My old 88 Turbo Mazda had an aircon vent under the steering wheel that blew cool air between your legs, sort of a cheap man's seat cooler but it worked well. In comparison to the cheap Mazda cooling, it seems Holden is still some 30 years behind, even on the MSE they charged a bucket of money for.

 

[Lex]

Someone with an inside source posted earlier in this thread about the seat cooling. Apparently the Chevy SS seat cooling is somehow in a LHD configuration and putting it into our RHD cars wasn't just plug and play and would have required significant re-engineering. Not really sure what to make of that but that's what's been put on the table as an explanation.

Hi
Yet they can re engineer for right hand drive for Australia steering setup, pedals, air con? Anything l've missed? Probably.

 

[Anthony121]

Hi
Yet they can re engineer for right hand drive for Australia steering setup, pedals, air con? Anything l've missed? Probably.

This was explained previously. They used the Calais V wiring for AU with seat warmers. The cooling seats were not an option on Calais V and that's what the LE was based on. It wasn't as simple to put the Chevy SS seats in our cars are they were LHD. Both seats had to be changed. The only additional wiring in the cabin was the magnetic ride control knob.

 

[Skylarking]

I haven't looked through 217 pages of this thread to find where seat cooling was previously explained but i found the following description in a US forum:

"Vented Seat Operation
Each vented seat consists of 4 blower motors and a seat temperature control module. There are 2 blower motors packaged with the seat back heating element and 2 blower motors along with the temperature control module packaged with the seat cushion heating element. The vented seat operation is designed to move cabin air through channels in the foam pad and small holes in the seat covers causing a cooling effect to the occupant.

With the ignition ON, battery voltage is applied through a 15 A fuse to the seat temperature control module. Ground for the blower motors is provided through a single ground circuit and the ground connection.

When the seat heating control module receives a ventilation seat command, it sends a low side drive pulse width modulation (PWM) signal through the blower motor control circuit to the seat temperature control module indicating the seat ventilation command. The module interprets this signal then applies ignition voltage to the blower motors and sends a high side drive PWM signal to the seat back and cushion blower motors indicating the vented seat command. The logic in the blower motors then sets the blower speed to the switch set point. The blower motors run causing a cooling effect to the occupant."

So it hardly looks like a complex issue that Holden couldn't have resolved and it shouldn't have been cost prohibitive to include seat coolers in Aussie vehicles, even well before the MSE & Director. Oddly, US vehicles were shipped from downunder to the USA, generally had more features (including the seat warmers, chromatic RVM with Onstar, etc) and were sold cheaper than the home variety which were less featured (not talking of MSE here) ! Yet, some continue to not recognise how we sem to be done over...

And, really, it shouldn't be impossible for us owners to retrofit such a system in our vehicles, so honestly, I smell something off as it seems Holden has spent engineering effort to lock owners out of modding their vehicles. About the only thing that seems to make sence is that "significant re-enginnering" is likely a Holden code a word for "we did a great job using software to lock owners out of modding their vehicles"

End result seems to be if i want to add a few features into my MSE, like chromatic rear view mirror (incorporating 4G onstart type features), seat coolers, etc, it'd be easier to sell up and buy some another vehicle due to what seems like lockout but it shouldn't have to be like this

Guess we can agree to disagree that Holden should have done better.

And today i'm even more peeved that i can't even have a spare set of rims and tyres with working TPMS sensors unless i go and have these spare rims electronically 'registered' to my vehicle according to what my dealer service department told me. And in doing such, i then loose the original rims/tyre registration! Further more, i find out that the spare doesn't have a TPMS installed so not only does a flat cost $$ to fix, but if it was a front wheel that got a puncture, i'd again have to change back to the repaired wheel/tyre just to get TPMS working... What idiot designed this ? Since we are/were global, one would think the BMC or whatever registers the TPMS would be able to log at least 10 TPMS ID's (locations exist where owners often have sets of summer and sets of winter rims/tyres).

I hope the dealer service department was wrong about all this TPMS stuff but Holden locks away service/workshop docs so i can't check for myself. So it seems i'm at the mercy of maybe skilled or likley incompetant or anything in betwen service departments/custome car.

Putting in stupid systems to simply force us back to dealers is a rort and should be strongly critisized, not inadvertently defended.

And Holden should provide electronic access to the the vehicle workshop manuals to all who want it (with KIA (global) i had electronic access when so could service my parent's vehicle until ACCC said manufacturers don't need to provide such in return for fixed price servicing and that door was shut)...

It's frustrating waiting until my MSE is properly run in so i can go for a blast and 'destress'

 

[3rspecB]

If you want a spare set of MSE rims with tpms, buy a tpms scan tool off ebay. I have one and it takes about 5mns to rescan each wheel. Yes its a bit frustrating that one needs to rescan tpms when one swaps wheels left to right but it takes 5mns to rescan.

 

[Anthony121]

I haven't looked through 217 pages of this thread to find where seat cooling was previously explained but i found the following description in a US forum:

"Vented Seat Operation
Each vented seat consists of 4 blower motors and a seat temperature control module. There are 2 blower motors packaged with the seat back heating element and 2 blower motors along with the temperature control module packaged with the seat cushion heating element. The vented seat operation is designed to move cabin air through channels in the foam pad and small holes in the seat covers causing a cooling effect to the occupant.

With the ignition ON, battery voltage is applied through a 15 A fuse to the seat temperature control module. Ground for the blower motors is provided through a single ground circuit and the ground connection.

When the seat heating control module receives a ventilation seat command, it sends a low side drive pulse width modulation (PWM) signal through the blower motor control circuit to the seat temperature control module indicating the seat ventilation command. The module interprets this signal then applies ignition voltage to the blower motors and sends a high side drive PWM signal to the seat back and cushion blower motors indicating the vented seat command. The logic in the blower motors then sets the blower speed to the switch set point. The blower motors run causing a cooling effect to the occupant."

So it hardly looks like a complex issue that Holden couldn't have resolved and it shouldn't have been cost prohibitive to include seat coolers in Aussie vehicles, even well before the MSE & Director. Oddly, US vehicles were shipped from downunder to the USA, generally had more features (including the seat warmers, chromatic RVM with Onstar, etc) and were sold cheaper than the home variety which were less featured (not talking of MSE here) ! Yet, some continue to not recognise how we sem to be done over...

And, really, it shouldn't be impossible for us owners to retrofit such a system in our vehicles, so honestly, I smell something off as it seems Holden has spent engineering effort to lock owners out of modding their vehicles. About the only thing that seems to make sence is that "significant re-enginnering" is likely a Holden code a word for "we did a great job using software to lock owners out of modding their vehicles"

End result seems to be if i want to add a few features into my MSE, like chromatic rear view mirror (incorporating 4G onstart type features), seat coolers, etc, it'd be easier to sell up and buy some another vehicle due to what seems like lockout but it shouldn't have to be like this

Guess we can agree to disagree that Holden should have done better.

And today i'm even more peeved that i can't even have a spare set of rims and tyres with working TPMS sensors unless i go and have these spare rims electronically 'registered' to my vehicle according to what my dealer service department told me. And in doing such, i then loose the original rims/tyre registration! Further more, i find out that the spare doesn't have a TPMS installed so not only does a flat cost $$ to fix, but if it was a front wheel that got a puncture, i'd again have to change back to the repaired wheel/tyre just to get TPMS working... What idiot designed this ? Since we are/were global, one would think the BMC or whatever registers the TPMS would be able to log at least 10 TPMS ID's (locations exist where owners often have sets of summer and sets of winter rims/tyres).

I hope the dealer service department was wrong about all this TPMS stuff but Holden locks away service/workshop docs so i can't check for myself. So it seems i'm at the mercy of maybe skilled or likley incompetant or anything in betwen service departments/custome car.

Putting in stupid systems to simply force us back to dealers is a rort and should be strongly critisized, not inadvertently defended.

And Holden should provide electronic access to the the vehicle workshop manuals to all who want it (with KIA (global) i had electronic access when so could service my parent's vehicle until ACCC said manufacturers don't need to provide such in return for fixed price servicing and that door was shut)...

It's frustrating waiting until my MSE is properly run in so i can go for a blast and 'destress'

Firstly I think the spare has a TPMS sensor. I know the redline has. Like 3rspecB says, buy a scan tool. Very easy to "register" the TPMS back to the vehicle in under 5 mins.

As for the cooled seats. It would of cost a lot to engineer RHD cooled seats for 1800 odd units for the LE's. I think the main costs would of been the wiring looms from LHD to RHD. That't why the LE's used an existing loom to cater for the needs of this vehicle eg Heated seats, puddle lamps etc from the Calais V.

 

[Skylarking]

As for the cooled seats. It would of cost a lot to engineer RHD cooled seats for 1800 odd units for the LE's. I think the main costs would of been the wiring looms from LHD to RHD. That't why the LE's used an existing loom to cater for the needs of this vehicle eg Heated seats, puddle lamps etc from the Calais V.

I can't believe that engineering costs for some wiring looms can't be amortised for 1800 units with litle cost being carried forward, unless Apple 'accounting philosophy' is at play to shift tunaxable funds OS.

Think about it, $18k engineering costs (5 engineers working on this for a month) over 1800 units is $10 enginnering costs per unit. Heck, 50 engineers working for a month is $100 over 1800 units. Seriously, how complex can it be to 'engineer' a few wiring looms that just need to be flipped from left to right with a couple of sanity checks? Such a enginnering process method should have been worked out by GM a long long time ago but accountants seem to have too much enginnering input.

If accountants didn't kill the camaro RHT enginnering efforts, which i understand was the case, down under we'd have seen it compete with the mustang from day one. Now it will cost stupid money via HSV, while GM scurried to fix this bad decission in the next iteration, meanwhile, Ford eats their 'performance lunch downunder.

I think accountants ruin the world to our detriment.