Holden Special Vehicles W427 launched

[minux]

The whole point of tax is to take money away from those who can afford it, and giv it to those who can't. I just think taxing one luxury but not another seems a little strange.

Ahh because GM and Ford worldwide can't make cars that will compete with internationals? Thats who the money goes too, Ford Toyota, Holden and Mitsibishi(in the past).

As for taxing people who can afford it, thats stupid. I should not have to pay higher taxes on items because I earn more than others, Its not my fault people aren't well off, nor should I have to pay for them to be given handouts by the government. This is done enough from income taxes.

 

[Calaber]

The holden chassis and build would die.

I don't think the chassis etc would "die" but it certainly wouldn't be acceptable to AMG in its present format. Holden deliberately set out to build the VE with an extremely rigid body shell as the first stage in ensuring a higher standard of safety and handling. The Zeta platform (ie suspension) used is a cheaper version (typically) of the more advanced version which was used by GM in the Cadillac (CTSor STS - can't recall the latest one). This suspension is sufficiently advanced to enable substantial development for high performance vehicles.

Earlier in the post, it was suggested that Holden are limited by the engines available within the GM world and this is certainly true, but there are some quite advanced engines available, much smaller than 7 litres, that would be more sensible in today's environment. It annoys me that the G8 was available from day one with variable displacement technology, yet the VE still doesn't have it. Holden have, for a long time, adopted the policy for the Australian market that they can offer a basic vehicle today, and take the next two to three models to bring it up to date, yet the capacity to offer the advanced vehicle exists from day one. (Finally addressing the camber and squat of the rear suspension on the VX II for example - it could /should have been done from day one with the first of the VT's.)

 

[klaw81]

Ahh because GM and Ford worldwide can't make cars that will compete with internationals? Thats who the money goes too, Ford Toyota, Holden and Mitsibishi(in the past).

As for taxing people who can afford it, thats stupid. I should not have to pay higher taxes on items because I earn more than others, Its not my fault people aren't well off, nor should I have to pay for them to be given handouts by the government. This is done enough from income taxes.

I agree with you...income tax should be enough to "equalise" people in nearly every situation. GST means that everyone pays equal tax on what they choose to buy.

Ford and Holden can and do make cars that compete well with internationals, but they get some pretty substantial handouts and tariff protections to compete at price parity. I am completely confident that Falcon would, and Commodore does, compete well on the world stage. However, Ford and Holden could NOT compete if their price protections were removed. They just don't sell enough units to make them viable WITHOUT big export earnings.

In regard to those comparing the W427 with E63 and M5 - please be kidding. It might have comparable performance statistics and it might even work ok on a racetrack, but nobody in their right mind is going to go shopping for an M5 and end up buying a W427 instead. You can only polish a turd so much, and at the end of the day, the W427 is a very shiny, carefully polished turd.

 

[Reaper]

I agree with you...income tax should be enough to "equalise" people in nearly every situation. GST means that everyone pays equal tax on what they choose to buy.

Eh??? Why should everybody be "equalised"??? Why would I bother flogging my guts out in a high responsibility, high stress job when I could have a no-stress, rock up to work and put round pegs in square holes, no re-criminations job for the same end result if we were all "equalised"? Broaden the GST tax base to everything and have a flat income tax rate and I'd be much happier.

Ford and Holden can and do make cars that compete well with internationals, but they get some pretty substantial handouts and tariff protections to compete at price parity. I am completely confident that Falcon would, and Commodore does, compete well on the world stage. However, Ford and Holden could NOT compete if their price protections were removed. They just don't sell enough units to make them viable WITHOUT big export earnings.

It actually comes down to economies of scale and labour costs in manufacture. Keep in mind the even Mercedes Benz are moving production to countires such as Nigeria, India, Mexico, South Africa, Thailand, Iran (!),China amongst others. Even BMW have moved production of the 3 series to South Africa and selected other models to other contries. Cars such as the M5 are also built in far greater numbers. I suspect there are more M5's built each year than the total amount of Commodores.

Reaper

 

[BANKS]

In regard to those comparing the W427 with E63 and M5 - please be kidding. It might have comparable performance statistics and it might even work ok on a racetrack, but nobody in their right mind is going to go shopping for an M5 and end up buying a W427 instead. You can only polish a turd so much, and at the end of the day, the W427 is a very shiny, carefully polished turd.

pretty sure holden where comparing the omega to the 5 series platform and the HSV's to the M5...?

 

[klaw81]

Why would I bother flogging my guts out in a high responsibility, high stress job when I could have a no-stress, rock up to work and put round pegs in square holes, no re-criminations job for the same end result if we were all "equalised"? Broaden the GST tax base to everything and have a flat income tax rate and I'd be much happier.

Equalising only goes so far....I don't think anyone's suggesting that everyone in Australia earns the same amount every year. If you have a high responsibility, high stress job and you get paid lots to do it, more power to you. You get paid more, and taxed more according. If I have a job that requires less skill or knowledge, I earn less and I pay less tax. I think that's fair enough, but I don't think a luxury car tax is fair because I could spend the same amount on another luxury (3 months on on a cruise ship, for instance) and I wouldn't be paying the same tax on that.

It actually comes down to economies of scale and labour costs in manufacture. Keep in mind the even Mercedes Benz are moving production to countires such as Nigeria, India, Mexico, South Africa, Thailand, Iran (!),China amongst others. Even BMW have moved production of the 3 series to South Africa and selected other models to other contries. Cars such as the M5 are also built in far greater numbers. I suspect there are more M5's built each year than the total amount of Commodores.

I think that was my point, actually - we just don't have a big enough market to make Falcons and Commodores at a viable scale, and if the tariffs were removed the models would be dropped.

pretty sure holden where comparing the omega to the 5 series platform and the HSV's to the M5...?

Holden can do all the comparing they want....I still wouldn't be considering a HSV as an alternative to an M5, and I bet I'm not the only one. It's a gerat benchmark, but do you seriously think 5 Series sales went down when the VE was released?

 

[BANKS]

Holden can do all the comparing they want....I still wouldn't be considering a HSV as an alternative to an M5, and I bet I'm not the only one. It's a gerat benchmark, but do you seriously think 5 Series sales went down when the VE was released?

Have you read any of my posts at all? Who wouldn’t choose an M5 over a HSV?

We’re arguing the same thing here...

 

[Joey_21]

but at the end of the day theres only 427 of these being built unlike your mercades,bmw etc yes they have limited editions but theres hundreds and thousands of them made and when u do get the rarer ones are way more expensive then the 155k mark. the 427 are basically a toy, collectors item 4 people 2 have in there trophy cabinet not 2 drive around

 

[Joey_21]

does anyone actually own one on here????

 

[CSP]

does anyone actually own one on here????

doubt it... though one of the HSV Club members here in Canberra has taken delivery of a white one. to go with his VL Walkinshaw, VZ GTO Coupe and VE GTS.