Is the race fixed? (aurion)

[spice weasel (BAM)]

so who came out on top vy_storm???

Did the ve sv6 fair very well??

 

[STEALTHY™]

why cant you comapre a xr6 to an sv6. there pretty much the same car only 5kw difference in power. roughly the same weight etc etc......

Tickford is Holdens equivelant to HSV. It always has been.

Why not compare a GTP to a Omega then

 

[klaw81]

Rear wheel drive vs front wheel drive makes no difference off the mark.

Rubbish! If the cars have any decent power/weight ratio, the rear wheel drive cars will have significantly more traction. It's simple physics - weight transfers to the rear of the car under acceleration - towards the drive wheels of the RWD cars and away from the drive wheels of FWD cars.

What is the reason people dislike front wheel drive anyway?

There's a couple things against front wheel drive cars. They have better packaging (no need for tailshaft tunnel) and they do have safer handling (understeer is easier to correct than oversteer) so they have a lot going for them. But most Aussies want rear-wheel drive sedans for a few reasons. Fisrtly, they're much better for towing (have a look how many sedans on the road have towbars - more than you'd think) and they're better for performance (see above comments about weight transfer - how many real sports cars are FWD?). Most of all, they're much more entertaining to drive - sideways driving in a big Aussie RWD sedan or ute is a cultural icon and FWD cars are hopeless in comparison. Driving enthusiasts all over the world agree on this - it's just more fun when the back wheels are doing the pushing.

The Aurion is already cutting into Commodore and Falcon sales and many fleet owners have placed orders for Aurions instead of their usual Falcons and Commodores.

Good for them! I imagine they've weighed up the various options and decided the Aurion works better for them. Maybe Toyota just did a better deal on fleet sales. Toyota have done that several times before to kill the opposition's sales figures - they sold Starlets at a loss for ages to squash the Hyundai Excel's sales success.

The Aurion has plenty of power and is relatively light - there's no reason to think it can't beat a less powerful and heavier Commodore despite the FWD disadvantage.

 

[vy-346]

Tickford is Holdens equivelant to HSV. It always has been.

Why not compare a GTP to a Omega then

Ah, XR's aren't tickford enhanced anymore.. haven't been since au. Tickford has been replaced by the independant brand fpv.. xr6 v sv6 is a completly fair comparison, they're extremely close..

 

[Burt_vn]

Yes but FPV is the equivalent of HSV. What hes saying is the SV6 is just a holden, not a HSV. Although i still agree they are he closest to compare to each other. Close price rang, both have slighty increased performance with more options, etc.

 

[brownie82]

XR's aren't tickford enhanced anymore.. haven't been since au.

Yeah thats what i was thinking havnt seen a Tickford symbol for ages!!

Cheers,
Brownie

 

[vy-346]

Yes but FPV is the equivalent of HSV. What hes saying is the SV6 is just a holden, not a HSV. Although i still agree they are he closest to compare to each other. Close price rang, both have slighty increased performance with more options, etc.

yep, but is not the xr6 just a ford these days?

 

[Burt_vn]

Good point, didn't even realise that. Ah well my old post stands just the bit about the HSV and FPV parts. They are definately the closest for comparison.:thumbsup:

 

[Pretender]

Rubbish! If the cars have any decent power/weight ratio, the rear wheel drive cars will have significantly more traction. It's simple physics - weight transfers to the rear of the car under acceleration - towards the drive wheels of the RWD cars and away from the drive wheels of FWD cars.
There's a couple things against front wheel drive cars. They have better packaging (no need for tailshaft tunnel) and they do have safer handling (understeer is easier to correct than oversteer) so they have a lot going for them. But most Aussies want rear-wheel drive sedans for a few reasons. Fisrtly, they're much better for towing (have a look how many sedans on the road have towbars - more than you'd think) and they're better for performance (see above comments about weight transfer - how many real sports cars are FWD?). Most of all, they're much more entertaining to drive - sideways driving in a big Aussie RWD sedan or ute is a cultural icon and FWD cars are hopeless in comparison. Driving enthusiasts all over the world agree on this - it's just more fun when the back wheels are doing the pushing.
Good for them! I imagine they've weighed up the various options and decided the Aurion works better for them. Maybe Toyota just did a better deal on fleet sales. Toyota have done that several times before to kill the opposition's sales figures - they sold Starlets at a loss for ages to squash the Hyundai Excel's sales success.

The Aurion has plenty of power and is relatively light - there's no reason to think it can't beat a less powerful and heavier Commodore despite the FWD disadvantage.

I agree RWD is a cultural icon and few would sway to the unknown.
For towing I also agree. Also people stick to what they know.

As for performance, you are kidding aren't you? Do you realise the amount of weight transfer fore and aft required for it to have a noticable bearing on grip given that the motor is slightly in front of the wheels? Yes it is simple physics and modern front wheelers do not suffer from this effect.
In a few very old front wheel drive cars this was more noticable as the cars were generally low powered and little was done to suspension dynamics to prevent it occuring.

 

[klaw81]

No I'm not kidding, and the effects are still quite clearly noticeable in modern cars. Spend a little time at a drag strip and you'll see it all the time - traction is the single biggest challenge for every FWD drag car in the world, despite massive slicks, solid rear suspension and pre-tensioned wheelie-bars. Watch a 380 or late-model Magna launch - lots of squealing and smoke, but very little forward progress for the 1st couple seconds as the rear suspension loads up. I wouldn't mind betting the Aurion really lights the front tyres up from a standing start, whereas both Falcon & Commodore struggle to spin unless you're being very violent.

As for comments regarding people sticking to what they know, I wouldn't mind betting most Camry/Aurion/Magna/380 owners wouldn't know whether their cars are FWD or RWD - simply because they're typically aimed at the cardigan-wearing public who are not usually interested in high-speed handling or performance. It's not a factor they consider because very few of them are driving enthusiasts.