JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Tatiana]

how many of your clients have ever paid any tax in their lifetime?
yet we taxpayers are expected to support these bludgers as well

Lot's actually. Not all are long term dole bludgers. Most had good lifestyles till things went horribly wrong.

 

[DAKSTER]

Lot's actually. Not all are long term dole bludgers. Most had good lifestyles till things went horribly wrong.

This is an assumption many people make.

Just because someone has been made redundant at 45, and prospective employers see them as too old, it doesnt make them a dole bludger.
Just because someone has lost their job when their company went under and they need the dole for a few weeks whilst they seek another job, it doesnt make them a dole bludger.

Both of these people could have had the same job all their lives, and paid masses of tax in that period. Why shouldnt they be entitled to the same benefits as other less deserving people receive?

Its always so easy to judge people when you know nothing whatsoever about their circumstances.

 

[Reaper]

PRIME Minister Julia Gillard will launch an attack on the states today over soaring power prices, barely a month after her own price-inflating carbon tax began.

And she will use the latest figures to back up her argument - which show household power bills have increased by a staggering 62.4 per cent in South Australia over the past four years, adding $1086 in expenses to the average bill before the carbon price even kicked in.
That equals the second highest jump along with Western Australia, but is less than the 69.2 per cent hike in New South Wales since 2008-09.
Ms Gillard will say the burden on households from her carbon price will add a comparatively small $115 to that pain this financial year.
In a bold square-up to state governments who she says have too often benefited from revenue increases from electricity prices, she will claim the states are doing very well out of the misery of households and declare it simply cannot continue.
"Power bills have become the new petrol prices: not just an essential of life that always seems to be going up, but a vital commodity, where what we consume each day, or pay every quarter, seems far beyond our control," she will say in the address to the Energy Policy Institute of Australia.
"Prices have gone up - have gone up far and fast."
Government figures show the conservative-run states of NSW, Queensland and WA, where network services remain state-owned, have experienced windfall gains in revenue including 60 per cent growth for NSW, 16 per cent for Queensland, and almost 200 per cent growth for WA since 2009-10.
"Following the recent round of price increases, revenue for enterprises wholly owned by State Governments is up 50 per cent over the previous five-year period," she will say.
"This was in a period when revenue for the rest of the market players grew less than 30 per cent ... for too long, some state governments have been increasing their revenue at the expense of the family electricity bill - that has to stop.
"Australia did not need nearly 50 per cent price increases for households over the last four years and Australians can't afford the same kinds of increases over the next four years.
"It's a huge cost to our economy and it's a threat to fairness in our society."

Read more: PM Julia Gillard blames electricity bill shock on the states | News.com.au

WTF??? Ok - this is just stupid. I know I shouldn't be surprised but yeah...

1. Why do we need another energy tax (that's what the carbon tax is) to discourage it's use when prices are rising so steeply anyway?
2. If power bills are such a vital commodity that we must consume each day and is far beyond our control, why did you see fit to further increase it with your carbon tax when the consumer in most cases has no means of obtaining an alternative??
3. "Australians cannot afford the same kinds of increases over the next four years" - then why did you legislate for such increases?
4. "It's a huge cost to our economy" - same question - why did you legislate a tax which further compounds the problem for Australia??

Anybody who has been in business and was not an out of touch teacher or union official will well know that minimising energy use has been high on the priority list for 15+ years. Legislating an increase in it's cost will not magically provide an alternative. I would love to find out what reality these fools live in - maybe I should join them :bang:

Reaper

 

[Cheap6]

WTF??? Ok - this is just stupid. I know I shouldn't be surprised but yeah...

1. Why do we need another energy tax (that's what the carbon tax is) to discourage it's use when prices are rising so steeply anyway?

The effect may be to increase energy prices but that is not the intent. If prices are (legitimately) rising independent of the Carbon tax then they would have done so anyway without it.

2. If power bills are such a vital commodity that we must consume each day and is far beyond our control, why did you see fit to further increase it with your carbon tax when the consumer in most cases has no means of obtaining an alternative??

For domestic use, you can tick the box that says you want to pay for green energy. You can use less. Few people are living at at subsistence level with electricity. Those that are have received a disproportionate amount of the Carbon tax income as compensation.

3. "Australians cannot afford the same kinds of increases over the next four years" - then why did you legislate for such increases?

They didn't legislate for an incease in the cost of electricity. They ensured that part of - that's part of - the cost of emitting is incorporated into the electricty price.

4. "It's a huge cost to our economy" - same question - why did you legislate a tax which further compounds the problem for Australia??

It depends what she's attributing the cost too. If it's due to price gouging rather than a legitimate cost of providing electrical power then she has point.

Anybody who has been in business and was not an out of touch teacher or union official will well know that minimising energy use has been high on the priority list for 15+ years. Legislating an increase in it's cost will not magically provide an alternative. I would love to find out what reality these fools live in - maybe I should join them :bang:

Reaper

Business is only going to minimise (electrical) energy use to the extent that it makes financial sense to do so. Adding in some of the cost that producing much of that energy imposes on the community that hasn't been hitherto included encourages investment in reducing energy use. If you have $100 dollars to invest in a business and you can gain $10 per year by reducing energy use but $20 investing in something else then the "something else" gest the investment. If the cost of a Carbon tax is $15 then it makes sense to invest in the energy reduction ($10 + $15 vs $20).

 

[Calaber]

If the carbon tax was intended, in part, to reduce energy consumption and carbon emissions, surely the massive increases in price for power over the last four years or so has already achieved that? Who on this forum hasn't been financially affected by domestic energy prices? (I'm discounting businesses here - they don't have much freedom to reduce power consumption). Did you need a carbon tax to force you to reduce your power consumption? I sure didn't and my power bills are small by comparison to most families with kids.

Strangely, and for the first time, I agree to some extent with Gillard. Abbott trying to blame power increases on the Carbon Tax is stupid. We have experienced massive increases in power charges over the past four years with no Carbon Tax in existence. The 10% or whatever that the tax will impose is a very small percentage of the overall increase and the blame for those increases rests fair and square with the State Governments. Most of them were Labor during the period we are talking about but the Liberal Governments in NSW and Victoria have done absolutely bugger-all to stop the increases since their election. Of course, in NSW, the unions are responsible for the non-privatisation of power supply, courtesy of O'Riordan and Robertson, on at least two occasions, so Labor IS to blame for our situation in this State, at least.

And as for the "compensation", well, there is a sector of the community which doesn't automatically get it and they are amongst the most "entitled". Self funded retirees who receive no government hand-outs or benefits receive no automatic tax cuts and no automatic payments. They have to actually apply to Centrelink for the one-off payment by finding the relevent application on the Government website. I've tried, without success, to locate that form. If it's in there, it's bloody well hidden.

 

[Full Spectrum]

must be good policy then?
tony advocates doing the same thing as did little johnny
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

I think it is great policy...but we have the now PM saying her own policy is bad policy because TA wants it?

Didn't you say when in opposition you can say and do anything because only governments can make policy?. Because you can't make policy in opposition?.

 

[gopher]

wouldn't you think this clown would distance himself from his state LNP colleagues?
but no he agrees with them.hopefully voters next year will realise his true hidden agenda

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

it would seem Juliars best reelection hopes are the LNP state governments LOL

 

[gopher]

with 4 states and 1 territory now under liberal rule is anyone better or worse off?
Qld for one is fast turning to absolute **** under a LNP government

i notice the debate from all the LNP supporters in here has gone awfully quiet recently
wonder if they are seeing the error of their ways

 

[MasterOfReality]

How exactly is it turning to ****?

Much more preferable than the rubbish and waste we had to put up with before.

Public servants loosing their jobs? Big deal. They can blame Bligh for that, for artificially bloating the public service to keep the unemployment rate down.

Jeez, the way the PS carries on it makes you wonder if they are a protected species or something.

Edit - my only concern is that Newman is going in too hard and too fast. Other than that, its a nice change from the incompetent fools we had before.

 

[DAKSTER]

Artificially bloating the public service to keep the unemployment figures down? What world do you live in?

Far from being bloated, the public service was already dramatically understaffed long before Newman came in. Granted, there was a surfeit of some occupations, mostly in the publicity machine I think, but in general it was and is understaffed.

I personally know people in the public service, long term employees who are well trained, good at their job, and overworked. One of those has found his small technical department is moving from 18 staff to just 6, and they couldnt keep up with the 18 they already had.

Under Newman, its slash and burn, and we will all feel the pain as services decline. Look forward to it. On the plus side, the jobs should become more plentiful in a few short years... Newman is only in for one term. QLD will not stand for what he is dishing out.

I am not a Bligh fan, but Newman is just an mini empire builder. He is totally about Brisbane, doesnt give a crap about the rest of the state. Leave him there for long enough and Brisbane will be a shiny metropolis with a 100m tall statue of him in the middle of a city surrounded by mad max style wastelands....