JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Grennan]

I dont think theres anything more to read into that.

Both sides have a very legitimate and good point.

The ABC reported on sheer nonsense. It went for sensationalism and went on the attack with a story that lacked any sort of credibility from the get go. This type of reporting does nothing but totally undermine the Government and causes tension between Indo and Australia once again. Theyre trying to destroy the boat policy by any means necessary. The bias of the ABC is starting to really shine. Taking anything the ABC says as gospel is like only reading Andrew Bolt.

On the other hand, Turnbull has a valid argument. The ABC does not answer to the Government. In the end they do have stakeholders. If the Government starts telling the ABC what to write, how is that any different to what Labor tried to do to the Fairfax and Murdock press 12 months ago?

''This is the first serious suggestion I know of, certainly in the last half a century, where a prime minister of the country is suggesting the Australian public be denied access to the truth, and the first time that a prime minister has seriously intimated that the ABC should censor and withhold information from the Australian public.''

Obviously was living in a cave whilst Gillard and Conroy went on the warpath.

 

[c2105026]

Not quite true. There are quite intelligent leftists who post frequently and while our views differ, their points are valid and they are certainly entitled to those views. It's true that conservatives seem to rule on this thread, but why is that? Why are there so few leftists prepared to contribute? They may well be outnumbered, but that might just reflect the results of the last election, mightn't it? After all, the leftist party was decimated - where were you all in their hour of need?

And one other thing about the other leftists - they don't see the need to add insults to their comments. You stuck your head in for the first time in yonks and all you could really contribute was an insult. Very clever.

I would imagine that because this forum deals with domestic muscle-cars, this would naturally mean a conservative slant on a politics forum. If you went to say a Citroen/Renault owners forum, or even a hybrid forum, it'd be to the left. Can't imagine too many Greens/Socialists/Environmentalists would be modifying V8 Commodores!

 

[Grennan]

I would imagine that because this forum deals with domestic muscle-cars, this would naturally mean a conservative slant on a politics forum. If you went to say a Citroen/Renault owners forum, or even a hybrid forum, it'd be to the left. Can't imagine too many Greens/Socialists/Environmentalists would be modifying V8 Commodores!

But Labor are the bastion of light for the working man. The Commodore is the blue collar car of choice. One would assume Labor voters would have a fairly strong presence here.

My theory is most people have no idea about politics and just chuck down a number on a peice of paper because their mate said X was bad because he heard from the TV that hes going to do this and they are quickly exposed for the idiots they are.

 

[Calaber]

I would imagine that because this forum deals with domestic muscle-cars, this would naturally mean a conservative slant on a politics forum. If you went to say a Citroen/Renault owners forum, or even a hybrid forum, it'd be to the left. Can't imagine too many Greens/Socialists/Environmentalists would be modifying V8 Commodores!

I think you are drawing a very long bow with that argument. Stereotyping much? I've never visited a Citroen/Renault forum, so I have no idea (and care not) what their political leanings are. Have you paid their forum (if such exists) a visit to confirm your views?

I have often wondered why so few leftists appear on this forum. I don't subscribe to Vee-ard's or (heaven forbid) gopher's views regarding the persecution of leftists here. They ARE heavily outnumbered, but, contrary to the tripe that gopher spouts, some of them are capable of very intelligent argument for their side and it's unfortunate that they so often get shouted down. Gopher and some others just give the conservatives so much ammunition to shoot back at them. Any dolt can paste a media extract and add a one liner like gopher does, but only a few of you actually go to any trouble to express and back up your views with solid arguments. Perhaps there are quite a few of you out there who simply lack the interest to take part in this thread, or the balls.

 

[Reaper]

I've stated previously that I regretted Turnbull's overthrow. To me, he is the more plausible national leader. I know that other conservatives here disagree, but I would have liked him to be at the helm right now.

I think there is no doubt that Turnbull has presence and poise that neither Abbott, Shorten, Rudd and most definitely Gillard ever had. That said, he had his chance to make a mark whilst leader of the then opposition and largely blew it. His political judgement was found lacking over the Gretch affair which was one of the most epic own goals I've seen in a long time.

 

[c2105026]

I think you are drawing a very long bow with that argument. Stereotyping much? I've never visited a Citroen/Renault forum, so I have no idea (and care not) what their political leanings are. Have you paid their forum (if such exists) a visit to confirm your views?

I have often wondered why so few leftists appear on this forum. I don't subscribe to Vee-ard's or (heaven forbid) gopher's views regarding the persecution of leftists here. They ARE heavily outnumbered, but, contrary to the tripe that gopher spouts, some of them are capable of very intelligent argument for their side and it's unfortunate that they so often get shouted down. Gopher and some others just give the conservatives so much ammunition to shoot back at them. Any dolt can paste a media extract and add a one liner like gopher does, but only a few of you actually go to any trouble to express and back up your views with solid arguments. Perhaps there are quite a few of you out there who simply lack the interest to take part in this thread, or the balls.

I think you can just look at the politics opinion polls on other threads on this site from the recent past which do show most forum users favour the coalition. US studies at least tend to suggest that left-wingers are more likely to drive imports, and those on the right tend to drive domestics. I would imagine a similar phenomenon would happen here. I have been on a peugeot owners forum (having owned a Pug 306). ALP quite popular there .

ALP may have been the party for working people decades ago but environmental issues and social issues have come to the fore. ALP's workplace and welfare policies may have pissed off some, but nothing at all like Carbon Tax and War on Misogyny. Election losers. If you are a staunch left winger, chances are you would care about the environment, and are more likely to drive something fuel efficient. OTOH a right winger may emphasise personal freedom and individualism, and is more likely to drive large powerful car.

I know these are generalisations, but this is what I have observed. Generally chatting with people in the car community as a whole there is not much support for leftist parties. There are exceptions to the rule. I am a leftie yet own a gas guzzling classic; our greens councillor here has a v8 Monaro GTS. We are in the same local car club together. Our mayor is a major car dealer and I think is ALP; we have another ALP councillor and is a motorsport enthusiast and has a VC Brock commodore. Indeed when Brockie was killed Beazley paid tribute to him on the floor of Parliament; let's not forget Chifley who was uber-leftie was one of the big proponents for creating the first Holden.....

Then again, the left sometimes goes on attack against the motorcar. Whilst greens don't totally poo-poo cars, they do oppose many road projects and push public transport. You have ALP 'cash for clunkers' scheme that failed to proceed. The current level of fuel excise is a legacy of the Hawke era. Left governments also tend to be a bit more anal about road safety. OTOH you have the Australian motoring enthusiast party which seems to have a very right wing platform, and would obviously be very pro-car.

 

[Calaber]

I think you can just look at the politics opinion polls on other threads on this site from the recent past which do show most forum users favour the coalition. US studies at least tend to suggest that left-wingers are more likely to drive imports, and those on the right tend to drive domestics. I would imagine a similar phenomenon would happen here. I have been on a peugeot owners forum (having owned a Pug 306). ALP quite popular there .

ALP may have been the party for working people decades ago but environmental issues and social issues have come to the fore. ALP's workplace and welfare policies may have pissed off some, but nothing at all like Carbon Tax and War on Misogyny. Election losers. If you are a staunch left winger, chances are you would care about the environment, and are more likely to drive something fuel efficient. OTOH a right winger may emphasise personal freedom and individualism, and is more likely to drive large powerful car.

I know these are generalisations, but this is what I have observed. Generally chatting with people in the car community as a whole there is not much support for leftist parties. There are exceptions to the rule. I am a leftie yet own a gas guzzling classic; our greens councillor here has a v8 Monaro GTS. We are in the same local car club together. Our mayor is a major car dealer and I think is ALP; we have another ALP councillor and is a motorsport enthusiast and has a VC Brock commodore. Indeed when Brockie was killed Beazley paid tribute to him on the floor of Parliament; let's not forget Chifley who was uber-leftie was one of the big proponents for creating the first Holden.....

Then again, the left sometimes goes on attack against the motorcar. Whilst greens don't totally poo-poo cars, they do oppose many road projects and push public transport. You have ALP 'cash for clunkers' scheme that failed to proceed. The current level of fuel excise is a legacy of the Hawke era. Left governments also tend to be a bit more anal about road safety. OTOH you have the Australian motoring enthusiast party which seems to have a very right wing platform, and would obviously be very pro-car.

There will always be plenty of contradictions (and perhaps, some hypocrisy) when it comes to political/environmental beliefs and what people drive. I wonder sometimes if strong environmentalists give a great deal of thought to the environment when choosing their car, or let their actual needs dictate. Who knows?

Chifley was a staunch supporter of the car industry because he had vision and foresight, and could appreciate the need for this country to get off the sheep's back and establish major secondary industries once the war ended. He could see the benefits to the nation and the employment and prosperity it would bring. I suspect his political leanings had nothing to do with his drive in achieving that goal - he was just a far-sighted, intelligent man who was prepared to look well beyond the next election. Of course, he wasn't always right and his proposals to nationalise banks and keep fuel rationing in place in 1948 killed his electoral chances, but that's another story.

Unfortunately, great leaders like Curtin and Chifley are all too rare in this country and I can't think of a Conservative leader since them who has reached their heights as national leaders.

 

[Calaber]

I think there is no doubt that Turnbull has presence and poise that neither Abbott, Shorten, Rudd and most definitely Gillard ever had. That said, he had his chance to make a mark whilst leader of the then opposition and largely blew it. His political judgement was found lacking over the Gretch affair which was one of the most epic own goals I've seen in a long time.

I could imagine that he could repeat Howard's rising from the Ashes (Lazarus Mk 2?) though, as Abbott has achieved the ultimate goal, and the Conservatives are highly unlikely to copy Labor's mistake mid-term, Turnbull's chances are extremely slim. Yeah, the Gretch affair was a poor indictment of his political acumen and his determination to implement carbon pricing put him at odds with his party. One thing that can never be taken from him is the fact that he was prepared to stand and fall by his beliefs. Not too many pollies can claim that, these days.

 

[Rajesh Koothrappali]

One thing that can never be taken from him is the fact that he was prepared to stand and fall by his beliefs. Not too many pollies can claim that, these days.

And that earns respect and admiration from me regardless of which party the person is a member of.

 

[Reaper]

I could imagine that he could repeat Howard's rising from the Ashes (Lazarus Mk 2?) though, as Abbott has achieved the ultimate goal, and the Conservatives are highly unlikely to copy Labor's mistake mid-term, Turnbull's chances are extremely slim. Yeah, the Gretch affair was a poor indictment of his political acumen and his determination to implement carbon pricing put him at odds with his party. One thing that can never be taken from him is the fact that he was prepared to stand and fall by his beliefs. Not too many pollies can claim that, these days.

Pretty good summary of the situation. I can't see him becoming PM any time soon unless Abbott does something catastrophic or decides he doesn't want the job or some ****. As for stand/fall by his beliefs, true however Abbott is pretty consistent on that one. Some will agree with his take on the world, others won't. Beyond that you could also add the greens as conviction based politicians however I'd say for the most part, their beliefs are just unworkable.