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JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

Jesterarts

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Your post had nothing to do with job creation.
it was just a quoted article so you could once again whinge about having to contribute to society.
Got news for you I work too
But I accept the fact that some of my taxes will go to pay people that don't work among other things.
Not everyone on welfare wants to be there despite what you may think

Mate, if you want to accept that then that's your decision.

I however, cannot accept someone who simply isn't interested in working will be supported out of my pocket.

I'm not going to bother trying to address your first two sentences, I honestly don't have time to draw you a picture.
 

gopher

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Link didn't work
 
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gopher

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I'm not going to bother trying to address your first two sentences, I honestly don't have time to draw you a picture.

not going to address it cause you know deep down that I'm right
 

Grennan

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I'm from your side of the political fence, but the undertakings (ie promises) Abbott made were bloody stupid. He might, in all good conscience, have WANTED to honour them, but he had to know that his promises were simply impossible to keep.

Abbott didn't have to make those promises. The Labor/Greens were so badly on the nose, that drover's dog could have won the election just by barking. Instead, Abbott maintained his three key mantra which found resonance with the electorate, then made all those other promises which Blind Freddy knew were impossible to achieve.

I voted for the party that had a history of economic responsibility.

Abbott has dug a very deep hole for himself, by working the "Gillard Lie" topic so hard for so long, then making unsustainable promises and breaking so many of them in such a short time. I think his credibility is shot to bits and I can see the party being forced to seriously consider a new leader before the next election, if his personal levels of popularity don't pick up as well as the party's.

Well said, totally agree.

Firstly, these promises were massive. Even with adding new taxes and not abolishing the existing Carbon/Mining Taxes this would have been a huge feat. A feat that we know now is virtually impossible within the span of lets say two terms.

Secondly, why did they promise it? I think the last ditch effort by Rudd really spooked them. Liberals really shouldve held off though. Rudd has strong initial polling but 2 months later he was in the gutter again. They promised the world far to early and got caught out. Dumb mistake, I think Labor could even chalk up a small victory on that one. They bluffed the Liberals pretty big.

I also voted for economic responsibility. I think both governments have their place. Labor is good at spending, Liberals are good at saving. Do I think Labor did a good job of spending during their first term? Sure, they put cash back into the public hands and did their jobs, but they didnt have the Liberal sensibilities to a) execute a good idea and b) know when it was time to start saving again.

Having a good idea is only a small fraction of the equation, executing is massive. We saw failed execution in almost every single policy/scheme from Labor.

We are now in a period where we need financial responsibility and stability. We have a resource sector that is slowing, manufactoring industry that is building its own coffins and an aging population that cannot be propped up by this generation of youth.

As I said earlier, I bet Liberals are really regretting hammering that Juliar nail home now. I think theres a fundamental difference between breaking a promise and lieing. Will the electorate make that distinction, no. Was the Carbon Tax a lie? Lets be honest with ourselves, it was probably an agreement after the fact from a minority party and Labor needed to implement it to cling onto power and thus a broken promise rather than a lie.

I think its too soon to be calling for a new leader, I really loathe this idea of interchangeable spokesmen. We saw how utterly cancerous it was for Labor. The ONLY person I can see being an alternate leader is Malcom Turnbull. I think enough time has passed for the public to forget his lapse in judgement and the hatred of Tony Abbott driven by minority groups and social media is spreading (as we knew it would).

Still, whats the best way to implement a leadership change? Youd wanna head into the elction with the new leader, but dont want it to appear as a knifing. Tony Abbott retiring? Not sure.
 

Calaber

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I think its too soon to be calling for a new leader, I really loathe this idea of interchangeable spokesmen. We saw how utterly cancerous it was for Labor. The ONLY person I can see being an alternate leader is Malcom Turnbull. I think enough time has passed for the public to forget his lapse in judgement and the hatred of Tony Abbott driven by minority groups and social media is spreading (as we knew it would).

Still, whats the best way to implement a leadership change? Youd wanna head into the elction with the new leader, but dont want it to appear as a knifing. Tony Abbott retiring? Not sure.

Gren,

I agree that after only eight months, it is far too soon to be looking for new leadership, but if Abbott hasn't turned things around substantially by the twenty four month mark of this term, I think his party will be looking very seriously at tapping him on the shoulder. Therein lies my perception of the difference between Abbott and Rudd (or Gillard for that matter). I believe that Abbott would step down if he could see his personal lack of popularity was having a serious effect on the standing of the government. I don't think Rudd or Gillard would ever have done that - in fact, with Gillard, I'm sure she wouldn't. (Rudd seemed to roll over pretty easily the first time but he didn't do it of his own choice).

I agree that Turnbull is the most likely (and acceptable) leader, as too many of the other senior Liberals have their own baggage. Morrison has proven to be a very effective Minister in a very unpopular role and recent developments seem to go against him, despite him only being in the chair for a few months. Pyne has a critical role but has made some stupid statements lately and annoys the **** out of people. Hockey lacks the necessary mongrel, IMO. Who's left? None that come readily to mind. Turnbull will have learnt from his earlier gaffes. He always presents as an intelligent person who so obviously is ill at ease with certain government policies, but toes the line for party unity. Given the reins, I could imagine quite a change of direction for the government and some more credible, well balanced policies that were just as effective as any dreamt up so far, without the pain in some sectors of the community. There would be pain, but it would be more equally distributed and the lower income earners wouldn't feel as though they were the only ones doing that "heavy lifting".
 

Grennan

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The only way it would work is if Tony totally left politics. None of this sticking around like Rudd did. Not saying that Tony would become a disgruntled cry baby, far from the opposite, Tony strikes me as a person who would happily sit out for the greater good.

But there would always be that claim from media and the other side that Tony is causing disharmony. If he is still in the party, it would be seen as a clear knife to the back.
 

Calaber

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The only way it would work is if Tony totally left politics. None of this sticking around like Rudd did. Not saying that Tony would become a disgruntled cry baby, far from the opposite, Tony strikes me as a person who would happily sit out for the greater good.

But there would always be that claim from media and the other side that Tony is causing disharmony. If he is still in the party, it would be seen as a clear knife to the back.

I don't think so. Abbott isn't the type to cause disharmony if he left of his own accord. Rudd was so egocentric, he could never accept he wasn't suited to the role of PM. Abbott lacks that oversized ego IMO. I reckon, if he stood down, he would be placed in an important portfolio if he wished to remain in the Ministry. There are a few weaknesses in his Cabinet, which he would be capable of filling better than the current incumbents. Of course, he might decide that he had had his go at the top job and leave politics altogether as you suggest. Quite likely his family would support him in that decision and perhaps even encourage it.

Another consideration would be that of Speaker. Bishop is a poor choice and her impartiality has been seriously, and rightly, questioned. Her appointment may have suited Abbott, but it was yet another example of poor judgement.

Would Abbott be a fair and impartial speaker? (Most unlikely he would ever consider the role, and I'm damned if I can see him doing it. Nor can I imagine how he would perform - just throwing it out there for consideration).
 

vr94ss

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Seems Joe might have been one of those radical lefty useless Arts degree students who don't like their educations costs to rise back in his day.
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