Losh's VR Ute build thread

[vc commodore]

I heard back from the mech and the problem lies with the lifters. Apparently there is some metal transfer but he is not yet sure why. It appears the lifters have not jammed and the plungers are fine too. From what he can see it has not affected the cam. The metal at this stage does not appear to be bearing material. He is unsure what has gone wrong though, which is a problem. Apparently only two lifters were affected.

So judging by this, you shouldn't have to reach into your pocket for any of it....The tear down, replacement parts nor putting it back together.....

Look forward to the updates

 

[losh1971]

So judging by this, you shouldn't have to reach into your pocket for any of it....The tear down, replacement parts nor putting it back together.....

Look forward to the updates

Hard to say. He made some calls to the engine machinist who did my heads and the conclusion they came up with was it could be a slightly spun cam bearing, which is blocking the feed. Unfortunately the only way to know is to pull the sump and timing cover and pull the cam. At this stage it is an unknown. There was shiny metal in the filter. It is unknown if these particles have gone through the crank bearings. The particles appear to be steel.
I have probably driven 400km since I heard the noise that should not be there, along with the miss, which also only presented recently. The mech is going to reuse the old gaskets, clean it up and put it back together. I basically have to wait and see if the noise reappears, along with the cold start rattle that was not there after the new lifters went in. The old lifters were no good and he showed me today that my original lifter plungers were stuck down on some.
The current lifters slipped in and out of the block no problem but there was some material sitting in the ditches in the block near where the lifters slide in. He could see any inside the holes or cam and using his magnet tool no metal cam out of there either.

Right now I really have no idea what to do, except drive it a few days and see what happens. It's engine out if the rattle comes back. So I guess all I can do is wait. Without pulling the sump and cam I won't know what the issue is. Plus without paying another 8hrs labor I won't know if the metal has gone through the cam and crank bearings or dropped straight into the sump and caught in the filter.

What is disappointing is the machinist near work sold me a set of Chinese Nason lifters and not Nason US ones.

 

[vc commodore]

If I remember correctly, you had the heads and lifters done....The cam is still the same cam you have had for a while?

This being the case, it is very unusual that the cam has decided to start falling apart now....If it is the lifters that have started this issue, it is between the machinist and place that bolted it together who coughs up....Not you.

 

[losh1971]

This being the case, it is very unusual that the cam has decided to start falling apart now....If it is the lifters that have started this issue, it is between the machinist and place that bolted it together who coughs up....Not you.

Buick cam bearings can spin. I honestly can't see him taking a hit, unless I could prove it was his mistake. I have bought parts from the machinist near work who might have supplied cheap lifters but since they haven't failed I have no come back. The heads machinist only dooped me a few bucks on springs, I really can't say too much bad about him.
I feel I have no come back on anyone as I supplied my own parts and had someone else fit them. Disappointing about Chinese Nason lifters and not US but they seem to be working fine so really can't even go winge to him either. I feel I have no leg to stand on as I'm guessing it will get me no where.

 

[vc commodore]

Buick cam bearings can spin. I honestly can't see him taking a hit, unless I could prove it was his mistake. I have bought parts from the machinist near work who might have supplied cheap lifters but since they haven't failed I have no come back. The heads machinist only dooped me a few bucks on springs, I really can't say too much bad about him.
I feel I have no come back on anyone as I supplied my own parts and had someone else fit them. Disappointing about Chinese Nason lifters and not US but they seem to be working fine so really can't even go winge to him either. I feel I have no leg to stand on as I'm guessing it will get me no where.

Bugger...Hopefully it was only crappy lifters and nothing more serious

 

[losh1971]

Hard to know because the lifters slid in just fine and they also popped out just fine. There was no resistance at all on the bores. Whether one is jamming in the plunger with the engine running no one knows except God.

 

[losh1971]

Found this https://nason.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Cam-Break-In-Procedure-1.pdf
Anyone know if this only applies to new cams or old cams and new lifters as well?

 

[Skylarking]

Being that mechanic can‘t say exactly what happened other than a guess that a cam bearing spun and maybe starved oil flow in the process, has the mechanic actually pulled the cam out yet to have a good look? I‘d want things checked rather than hope that with more driving the unknown cause will simply go away. Hope is not a good engineering solution to anything.

So I’m left wondering if it was simply a lack of concentration or some interruption during assembly causing him to miss putting some assembly lube on a lifter...

I‘m just not sure what I’d do if I was in your situation but it’s seriously fcuked up and highlights that it’s best not to supply parts as you end up owning someone else’s problem

As for the lifter break-in procedure (noticed your post while typing), new lifters in old bores will still have things bed in so some crud is always produced. As such, I‘d tend to follow the manufacture‘s
procedure so now curious what your mechanic advice he did re break-in or what he told you that you must do

(ps: I’ve seen some workshops that are dirtier than what I imagine a skanky brothel would be. Yet such workshops seem to do lots of repairs though no idea of their failure rates. So when I read manufacturers implied cleanliness requirements, as in x micron oil filters... makes me wonder whether there are lots of unhappy customers from these dirty workshops)

 

[losh1971]

Being that mechanic can‘t say exactly what happened other than a guess that a cam bearing spun and maybe starved oil flow in the process, has the mechanic actually pulled the cam out yet to have a good look? I‘d want things checked rather than hope that with more driving the unknown cause will simply go away. Hope is not a good engineering solution to anything.

Unfortunately it's engine out to inspect the cam bearings properly. Because if they are found damaged the engine comes out regardless. Taking the sump and timing cover off is almost the same time as pulling the engine out, about 7-8hrs. I'd have to pay and to go about it the long way, pulling sump, etc and then engine would just add hours and money. Basically if I have major damage it's too late now anyway.

 

[losh1971]

I'm going to do another oil and filter change and go back to the 15w 40. The engine was less rattly on start up when I had 15w 40 in it.