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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Nitro_X, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Well, I'd say that it's being spent exactly as originally intended right now.
     
  2. Aussie Trev

    Aussie Trev Active Member

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    I don't think so because most of those "black spots" no longer exist as the Pacific Highway, a federally funded road by the way, is rerouted and upgraded.
     
  3. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    It's official !!!
    ScoMo has said publicly exactly what I expected and predicted as far back as mid last year.

    'We have not one, but two crises. We have a medical crisis which has caused an economic crisis.'

    This is the scapegoat the government has been secretly hoping for, to blame for our BS over-indebted economy.
    An excuse to unleash massive monetary and fiscal stimulus in an attempt to kick the debt can down the road, justify their positions in our society and bail out the corrupt bankers and our over inflated housing market.
    And they do it with impunity.

    When will our political and corporate leaders be held accountable for their actions?
    These very wealthy individuals could lose their job today and they could live a comfortable life and probably retire early if they wanted too.
    How many bank CEO's, State & Federal politicians or bureaucrats will ever need to line up at Centrelink to claim unemployment benefits just to survive?

    .
     
  4. keith reed

    keith reed Well-Known Member

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    This country is rich enough to never have to go into debt. There are those people that are so obscenely wealthy to the point of being ridiculous. The government is so scared of them that they pander to them in any way they can. If they had any balls they would stop them shipping their money into overseas tax havens and tax them fairly. No matter how they tax them they will never have to worry about paying their bills. People like Alan Joyce and his ilk should not be paid such exorbitant salaries no matter how important their jobs are while there are people living in cars unable to feed themselves and their children.
    Also it is long overdue that we stopped pandering to the USA and blindly following them from one trumped up war to the next. Having the means to defend Australia is fine however we can save the country a lot of money if they confined the military spending to Australia. Just because the top military want expensive new toys to play war games doesn't mean they have to have them.
    I remember when there was no unemployment. It wasn't until we started borrowing money from the IMF that our problems started. They insisted that we have a percentage unemployment as part of the deal. The rot hasn't stopped and until we change our ways it will not.
    This governments neo liberal policies of thinking that if they give more to the rich then if will filter down to the poor is laughable.
     
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  5. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    yeah, for me it's getting more and more difficult to trust anyone with significant wealth and power, whether they are in the public or private sector (and many move in and out between the private corporate world and politics).

    Remember the public media shaming of the ex AusPost CEO, back in 2018 I think*.....he was in the multi-million $$ remuneration club.
    I laughed when the then PM Turnbull publicly stated at the time, he thought many CEO salaries were too high.
    This coming from a multi-millionaire (net worth about $200+ million). Turnbull made most of his wealth working for Goldman Sachs Investment bank then moved into politics, Turnbull's wife is also a lawyer with a background in investment banking, she was also once Lord Mayor of Sydney etc...etc...
    Anna Bligh ex Queensland Premier is currently the chief of the Australian Bankers Association....
    ScoMo worked for 5 years at the Property Council of Australia as national research officer....the PCoA is THE peak lobby group for many multi-BILLION $$ property development and construction companies....

    Again, just a small sample of the interconnections of the wealthy elites.
    Bank bail-outs....mortgage holidays....cash handouts...money printing....GovCo selling bonds to the RBA for all the new public debt being accrued....the working class are getting shafted again...

    It's going to take a monumental community effort to "lockdown" these corrupt f-uckers because there are so many of them, hiding and swimming in the global swamp of power and money games.

    .
     
  6. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Nitro
    Just a question for you.

    Is there any way someone can become very wealthy without being corrupt?
     
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  7. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Win tonight's $80m Powerball Jackpot.
     
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  8. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    With all the BS pouring forth from our global corporate and political leaders, I've seen a shift.
    A shift in the consciousness of the so called 'common man'....it's almost like two groups are emerging in western society:
    1. Those who have just given up, saying what can I do about it all anyway? ..so bend over and take one for the team
    2. Those who think, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em....they learn to play the game and take whatever they can get along the way. If I don't, someone else will....so....*shrug*
    The big question is, have we got the backbone to push for real lasting change, or shall we submit to our designated fate and maintain the status quo?

    Similar questions may have been asked or ideas brought forward throughout history, by greater minds than my own.
    I'm just a simple common man, so why do I now ponder this existence?
    Which of the two options is the easy path? Which option is the right path?

    .
     
  9. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    Great question!
    That would depend on the individuals moral compass, how they view the world, and how they perceive or question their own actions, I guess.
    And, how others may judge them. How did they get to their position in life? How were they assisted, who assisted them.
    What are/were the motivations for their path in life?

    Why is the "core" motivation for human society, based on our political and social structures, always been to accrue financial or material wealth, that's the general 'end game' is it not?
    Why MUST we strive for perpetual ever expanding economic growth and consumption, at any cost?... because money is the center of gravity?
    When inevitably, as proven time and again through history, perpetual economic growth is unnatural and flawed ideology because it only seems to create boom / bust cycles.

    Our bankers have broken the law and regulations thousands of times, yet Australia accepts that they are just "misbehaving" if we throw a few new regulations at them, pretend to enforce them, because apparently the existing laws were not enforceable and if they promise to be good, they can get on with screwing us over?

    When I talk about corruption it is always in the context of ethics, morals, integrity.
    So maybe there are varying degrees of corruption.

    The wealthier one becomes, the more they have to lose, losing wealth is not an enjoyable past-time in our world, the wealthier one becomes the more they feel the need to protect that wealth or increase it, fear of losing what you believed you worked hard for would cause a moral dilemma, allowing one to justify shifting their ethical goal posts....
    How much wealth is enough? How many houses, cars, yachts, or gold plated possessions does one person need?

    When you're wealthy you have more social power, more options, more opportunities.
    We have allowed our societies to evolve this way.
    Social stratification has increased over the last 40 years, and the 'wealth gap' has widened.
    The middle class/working class/ and even the poor are pushed into ever increasing financial debt to create the illusion of wealth.
    Why don't you ask the PM, the Treasurer, the RBA chief and past CommBank CEO's the same question?

    The most direct answer I could give you at this point is, probably not.


    .
     
  10. J_D 2.0

    J_D 2.0 Member

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    Its a zero sum game. You don’t get rich without ******* someone else over (usually many people). Complete and utter fact. No single person is actually “worth” millions to the system but it’s what they gouge out of it and claim they are worth it.

    The fact of the matter is every company still works when their CEO is on holidays ergo they aren’t that important (no one is irreplaceable) and if we lived in a meritocracy most of them wouldn’t actually be considered for the job they have as they aren’t as smart as the people that are actually running the show.
     
  11. J_D 2.0

    J_D 2.0 Member

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    “Why MUST we strive for perpetual ever expanding economic growth and consumption, at any cost?”

    Because the people with all the money have to keep promising the plebs that they will get something better if they “just work hard enough”!

    Once the realisation sets in that the rich have made off with everything and have pulled up the drawbridge on the way out the pitch forks come out. But of course they will be safe in their gated communities from any repercussions for stealing the common wealth.
     
  12. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    Thing is, I haven't seen many pitch forks around, Australians seem quite content to have every bodily orifice reamed by the wealthy elites...
    ...who cannot afford to let our housing / land markets return to rational prices and a house price crash is simply unacceptable, it would literally crash our banks (they would become insolvent) and our entire economy would crumble....because it's foundation is built on massive amounts of financial debt.
    Hence the unprecedented monetary and fiscal stimulus (bail-out) packages.

    .
     
  13. J_D 2.0

    J_D 2.0 Member

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    It won’t be until it gets really bad, like Great Depression bad, that people will stop worrying about the football, royals, kardashians etc and start worrying about their own predicament and their own future. I think we might start to see a shift in the way people think in this country because about half the working population is about to find out what it’s like to be the downtrodden on Centrelink and maybe they will have some appreciation of the other side of the fence instead of just saying “oh well at least it will never happen to me”.
     
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  14. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    My greatest concerns are twofold. The first is what state our economy will be like at the end of this pandemic.
    The second is how we will relate to China, given our dependance on that country for trade and investment.

    Personally, I'd like the world to turn on China. Their arrogance and lack of concern for other countries deserves to bite them. Hard. Banning all Chinese imports, cutting exports to them of essentials, in effect, exercising the sort of trade restrictions on them that have been exercised over Iran and North Korea.
    I just don't know if the world can afford to do it.
     
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  15. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Of course the world can afford to do it.....people just need to change their expectatons, i.e. no 84" TVs for $3k etc.

    Now that the global economy is in the toilet, it is the best time to flip the bird at China and establish alternatives.
     
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  16. J_D 2.0

    J_D 2.0 Member

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    I don’t see that as a realistic proposition as the world collectively has put so many eggs in the China basket that to go “cold turkey” would put the world in a worse predicament than it’s already in. I can see there being a possible slow devolving of globalisation and returning at least partially to more localised production. The current system has always been a stupid proposition as it has as it’s ultimate aim a system with zero redundancy in it as the globalised capitalist system is always striving to reduce or eliminate all competition (ie; redundancy) as the pinnacle of capitalism is the monopoly which is what every business is wants to be! Hence their constant cozying up to the worlds only natural monopoly which is government!
     
  17. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    Multi-State or global collusion forcing economic sanctions onto one country affecting their entire population only ever hurts the little people.
    It's archaic ideology and has never really solved humanities problems.
    It creates more disharmony, resentment and enemies.

    The entire world, the entire human race is in constant conflict and competition with itself.

    Until we learn to cooperate with a common understanding, and be true to our higher potential as intelligent sentient beings we will never really fix the problems that we repeat generation after generation.
    I've said it before, the fundamental change that is required to lift humanity to a better place must first come from the top down, it must start with those in positions of power, authority and wealth.

    If there's no integrity, accountability, truth and honesty at the very top, how can you expect it to be any better down below.

    Why does humanity always require some kind of existential threat or crisis to re-teach us how to cooperate and work together for the benefit of all.

    .
     
  18. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    The human condition covering aspects of greed and selfishness on a large scale will never allow that to happen on a global scale.

    This current threat still hasn't taught people to co-operate and work together for the benefit of all so not sure what will.

    Wait until this situation worsens in Aus over the coming months.

    TL;DR Humans are generally greedy selfish cnuts.
     
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  19. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    Before this virus pandemic, there were already millions of people suffering incredible hardship and loss.
    While the wealthy and powerful bicker and compete with each other about who controls this and who owns that.
     
  20. Nitro_X

    Nitro_X Numbskull

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    Donald Trump caught taking another break earlier today at Trump Tower

    [​IMG]
     

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