respect?

[DAKSTER]

I'm not defending their law for an instant. Its wrong. But its the law in their country, and until the activists can get it changed, as I certainly hope they will, its still their law.

Activists have existed in every country, always. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they dont. Invariably they pay a price for their activism, its a shame but its a reality.

We have even done it here. The Eureka stockade was a rebellion by a group of activists against the law. At the time, it just got the rebels in the ****, a very short battle indeed. Long term, it changed our society.

Aung San Suu Kyi, the democratically elected leader of Myanmar/Burma has spent half her life imprisoned in various ways. Shes an activist, and paying the price for it.

The Iranian woman has my respect and support, dont get me wrong. Having said that though, she knew the risk she was taking, and chose to take it. I hope she succeeds in making some change. If she doesnt, hopefully others will follow. Thats the price every free country has had to pay for freedom... those that dare to challenge will suffer. She made that choice.

Until then, its the law in her country and we dont have the right to attempt to interfere. Changes need to come from within, not outside.

 

[Reaper]

I think it is important to make the distinction between respecting another country's laws and having an opinion on the severity of punishment of a crime, or weather an act should be a crime in the first place. In this case I understand their law but my view is that firstly the act of not wearing a hijab (or whatever it was) should not be a crime and by natural extension, any punishment is excessive. Like the bali kid it's pretty stupid to flaunt the law though.

Reaper

 

[RK5TAR]

I think if you are silly enough to break the law or put yourself in a position to be seen to be breaking a law in a foreign country, then you are punishable under that country's law.
The 14 yr old must have been living under his PS3 for most of his life not to know that drugs + Indonesia = bad news.

I still remember back when Barlow and Chambers were hanged for drugs back when I was in primary school. I wasn't allowed to watch the news, but I picked the info up in dribs and drabs somewhere along the line and figured it out.

Then there was the schoolboy who graffiti'd cars in Singapore and got caned for it. This stuff has been going on for donkeys years and nothing has changed and some people still havent yet learned to not do illegal crap when travelling.

No,, I don't particularly agree with the harshness of the punishments, but if you don't break the laws in those countries, then you have nothing to worry about.
Better still don't go to those countries and you have no worry of it happening.

Im equally as peeved at our Government bending over backwards to make every other foreigner feel at home (ie banning Christmas celebrations and easter bunny etc for kids at schools) yet it should be them accepting that we have our rules, laws and customs IN OUR OWN COUNTRY and we shouldnt have to change them for anyone, just as their country wouldnt change them for us if we moved there.

Im also sick of being branded a racist because I have those views. Im not against migration to Australia, I am against Australia's customs etc being changed to suit the migrants.

 

[DAKSTER]

Im equally as peeved at our Government bending over backwards to make every other foreigner feel at home (ie banning Christmas celebrations and easter bunny etc for kids at schools) yet it should be them accepting that we have our rules, laws and customs IN OUR OWN COUNTRY and we shouldnt have to change them for anyone, just as their country wouldnt change them for us if we moved there.

Im also sick of being branded a racist because I have those views. Im not against migration to Australia, I am against Australia's customs etc being changed to suit the migrants.

I'm with you 100% on the rest of your statement, and your closing sentence. Its the middle bit I wonder about.



The Easter bunny and stuff like that didnt happen at my school and hasnt happened at my kids schools either, but I would look at that as a bit of fun, its not a particularly religious celebration. Easter is of course, but not the bunny...

Christmas celebrations at school dont tend to happen when school is closed over Xmas, but I guess sure there was a school breakup party which you could loosely equate as being a xmas party. I went to a public school, my kids are at both primary and secondary catholic girls schools (both at secondary school next year woohoo easier school runs!), and they dont have the easter bunny or xmas at school either? And never have?

My point is that I dont believe we are doing all that much bending over here. Sure, we extend some hospitality. If we dont, they will never be able to assimilate and everyone will hate each other even more than they apparently already do.

I think we may be providing some facilities that are suitable for their culture, but I dont believe we are losing anything that we already had.

If in fact the easter bunny and xmas have been banned from schools, and I am certainly willing to take your word for that, you could argue that it is in fact a reflection of the wider community that religion of any kind shouldnt be shoved down anyones throat unwillingly. Thats why religious instruction is not compulsory, its a personal choice which a minority of Australians would choose.

Even at the catholic schools which my children attend, the only religion they ever need to face is the dress of a few of the nuns. Religious instruction is available but not compulsory, and none of those religious occasions are celebrated in any way. Nor have they been in the 10 years or so that my 15 year old has been going to those schools. Religion is not a subject that is ever raised directly by a teacher, though of course they are happy to discuss if asked.

Were they to force my children to study or practice religion in any way, I would be changing their schools immediately. I'm happy for my children to make their own decision on the subject and discuss it with whomever they please, but I will not have it shoved down their throats.

 

[Shedvl]

Im all for people practising their own religion...to an extent. I was at the Entrance on the Central Coast last summer and there were muslim women sweltering in the full Burka ( apologies if the spelling is incorrect ).. and the men were getting around in shorts. I had on a short sleeve top open with a singlet underneath. Just a little cleavage showing and the Muslim men were sneering at me like I was dressed like a whore. I get they expect their women to dress a certain way...but this is Australia. If you dont like it...bugger off.

 

[Julie]

I have no respect for sharia law and as such will never travel to any of these shithole countries so I don't have to respect those barbaric laws. You know when in Rome do as the Romans or in my case you don't want to do as the Romans do so stay the #### away from Rome. Wish people coming to Australia would adopt the same philosophy!

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I have no respect for sharia law and as such will never travel to any of these shithole countries so I don't have to respect those barbaric laws. You know when in Rome do as the Romans or in my case you don't want to do as the Romans do so stay the #### away from Rome. Wish people coming to Australia would adopt the same philosophy!

As much as I agree with you, I also disagree. It's all well and good to do as the Romans do, but when people come to this country, aren't they free to express themselves culturally and follow their own religious beliefs? As long as they aren't breaking any laws of course. Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Breaking the law? Living your life, following your own traditions and religion is not against the law of this country.

 

[DAKSTER]

As much as I agree with you, I also disagree. It's all well and good to do as the Romans do, but when people come to this country, aren't they free to express themselves culturally and follow their own religious beliefs? As long as they aren't breaking any laws of course. Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Breaking the law? Living your life, following your own traditions and religion is not against the law of this country.

Exactly. The reason this and the thread about the 14 year old that preceded it even exists is that for some reason Australians seem to feel that people who enter our country have to dress and behave exactly the same way we do... that they should follow our laws, assimilate, and learn to say 'mate' and 'sheila' without a foreign accent.. and yet we also think that if we go to their country, their laws and customs shouldn't apply to us.

We think that only our laws should apply to our own citizens, and we are in some way immune to other countries laws, and if we visit other peoples countries then only our own law should apply to us, because we are special and morally superior.

We think that we have the right to dictate to other countries what laws are right and proper, what punishment should apply for infringements, and who they should apply to.

Does no-one see the elephant in the room? The huge double standard we are trying to apply here? Honestly, we are becoming more and more like the yanks, its embarrassing.

 

[Reaper]

As much as I agree with you, I also disagree. It's all well and good to do as the Romans do, but when people come to this country, aren't they free to express themselves culturally and follow their own religious beliefs? As long as they aren't breaking any laws of course. Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Breaking the law? Living your life, following your own traditions and religion is not against the law of this country.

Bring your life here, follow what ever religion you like etc etc yes. Apply your laws etc from back home no.

Reaper

 

[DAKSTER]

Bring your life here, follow what ever religion you like etc etc yes. Apply your laws etc from back home no.

Reaper

Absolutely. Bash up your wife in Australia because she broke some cultural rule, you are a wife basher under Australian law and should be charged according to Australian law, regardless of your heritage.

Get caught in Bali with pot, and you will get charged according to Indonesian law, regardless of which country you are a citizen of. Sure there is corruption there, its common around the world, but we are talking about justice systems not crooks - the applicable penalties, not the way to avoid them.

Allow yourself to be filmed without the traditional head covering in Iran if you are female, you will be charged according to Iranian law. I'm not 100% sure on this one, but I have the feeling some of these countries actually exempt foreigners from that kind of law, so in that respect they are maybe even a little more lenient than us.. we dont make exceptions.

I suspect not Iran though, they are pretty hard line.