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To be (leaded) or not to be?

kurtbarker

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Hey, I was just curious regarding the leaded/unleaded fuel issue in VK's. I have a 84 VK Berlina 3.3 EFI. Now I was told it was unleaded, but after reading these posts i'm a little doubtful. Could someone confirm, or tell me how I can tell what fuel my VK actually takes?
Thanks
 
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mark_vdh

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i think (not sure) at the fuel pump the lead replacement fuel has got a bigger nozzle than the unleaded fuel, so if the lead replacements fits into your car than it is a leaded car
 

Grunter

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It takes LRP/Super. But if your going to run it on unleaded, atleast put premium in it. For some reason mine idles better when cold with ultimate then the lrp. But im just going to keep running it on lrp until the local servo near me doesnt sell it anymore and then run ultimate permanately.
 
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Dogmeat

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so could you run a leaded car on just premium unleaded? and what needs to be changed when converting from leaded to unleaded? and once again any price would be heplfull :)

cheers
 

Commynist

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Hi guys, yes all vk 202's were designed to be run on leaded (super, back then) and if you were to run your car on unleaded with no additives you'll eventually get valve recession caused by the unleaded fuel not having any lead to lubricate the soft valve seats, allowing them to be 'bashed in' over time.
I have a red 202 and am changing the head over to a vk efi head, so I've just sent it off to have the hardened valve inserts fitted so I can run it on PULP. You dont wanna pay more than $200 for the 'head job' tho :p (unless you wanna pay for a drive-in drive-out job, then you'll be up for labour, gaskets, coolant ect.) I was quoted $33 each insert and you only need six, the exhaust valves only.
The other alternative is to keep buying those little bottles of fuel additive (try to stick to 1 brand) at servos each time you fill up, or buy a fuel additive kit which self-feeds the additive into the fuel mixture through manifold vacuum, I ran one of these until I ripped the old head off yesterday with no probs, it's more cost effective than the little bottles and much more hassle free, just gotta remember to check under the bonnet from time to time and fill the container up when low!
Hope this helps! :) :drink: :king:
 

Grunter

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Im just going to let my valves suffer when i cant get any lrp :p heheh
 

kurtbarker

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I just started with those bottles today, I was told my car was unleaded which is why I wasn't using them sooner [damn car salesmen].
 

vkberlina

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OK I hope this might clarify a few things

The VL was the First commodores to be made for unleaded fuel use. now have a read below re: Valve seat recession. It is extracted from a post I have posted many times before.

Now reasons for running lead in fuel & correct octane fuel...

When you run a low or insufficient octane fuel, your engine pinks (detonates, pinking, pings, knock what ever you get the point.) Under load.

Now this causes huge increases of heat in the combustion chamber. Now what this does is causes your exhaust valves to get to point where they begin to melt on the surface. Now generally under high load and/or high-RPM this can/will cause engines to fail.

Now you don’t _have_ to run lead or an upper cylinder lubricant. Under normal every day driving conditions your exhaust valves wont get hot enough (using fuel of sufficient octane) to cause valve seat recession.

We now have fuels with 98 octane like Shell Optimax and the mobile, BP & Caltex Vortex 98 flavours these generally exceed the octane rating for most cars. As you have sufficient octane the car wont pink, because it isn’t pinking you have lower combustion temps so your valves don’t get as hot. As they are not getting, as the valves don’t micro/localise weld themselves to the seats so you don’t get valve seat recession.
note Regular unleaded is around 94 from memory & premium is 96 along with caltex vortex 96 which basically is premium with injector cleaner. Optimax and the other flavours by mobil, BP and vortex 98 are pretty much the only true 98 octane fuels.

If you drive an older car like a VB-VK and it is driven in a low-stress application, basically used as a daily driver, then you need have no real need to run upper cylinder lubes or lead. As long as you use a fuel that meets or exceeds the octane rating for your engine.


If you rebuild your engine the best way to overcome this from ever happening is to install hardened exhaust valve seat inserts and exhaust valves of harder materials, such as 4N stainless.
Also if you lower your compression this will enable you to run a lower octane fuel. Simply retarding your timing isn’t really the proper way to tune an engine to run a lower octane fuel. Although you can advance your timing when you run a higher octane fuel this is because the cars timing was retarded from factory to pass emissions laws etc.

If your car pinks for a longer period of time you may experience pre-ignition or overrun when you turn your engine off. Basically what’s happening is your cylinder is so hot it’s igniting the fuel without the need for spark. This generally wont last long as your engine will destroy itself pretty quick.

Ok I hope you haven’t fallen asleep that’s about it :)

Cheers
Scott
 

Grunter

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Yeah unleaded fuel is only 91ron, which is why i wouldnt run it in the vk. My user manual says to use 99ron grade super :)
 
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Dogmeat

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at the moment im using caltex vortex but not the vortext 98 so does anyone know what ron rating that variation is?
 
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