VF HVAC Dead?

[Skylarking]

Do note that the workshop manual mentions connecting the car to their diagnostics equipment and checking communication with the HVAC module and that it operates appropriately with a resetting process available if not. Not sure what equipment auto elec’s have and whether they can reset such modules.

 

[RossK]

Auto elec apparently has the right equipment, he just rang and said it has a code reporting a fault in the Canbus sytem, but doesn't say where.
It's not something He's seen before so He has requested more diagnositic info from Holden, who apparently are usually helpful. So just waiting on that to continue.
Facia and HVAC module are in working condition though, he said he can get it to fire up using the diagnostics, but won't run on its own.
This level of Auto electrical is way beyond me.

 

[Skylarking]

Your problem seem to be progressing towards a solution which is a good thing. Hopefully it wont progress towards an expensive solution

Without access to manufacturers service documentation and diagnostics equiment, the level of electronics within our modern vehicles is in many cases beyond most. Even more so, it is a pity the manufacturers try and keep such info away from that pesky Joe Public

 

[Smashfist]

Even more so, it is a pity the manufacturers try and keep such info away from that pesky Joe Public

Some actually make it available. Any Joe Blow off the street can buy an MDI from Bosch and buy a subscription to the AC Delco TDS which includes SI (service information), Tech2win and GDS/programming access.

They typically have a sook when they find out that yearly subscriptions cost the same amount that a dealer pays, couple of grand a year and about $1200 for an MDI (plus a laptop to run it). Fair's fair I reckon.

If you can snag a second hand MDI (they're being phased out slowly for MDI 2 units), single and 3 day passes for GDS and SI access are very reasonable, and you can buy single vehicle programming passes cheap (that give you the ability to program all modules in a vehicle once).

 

[Skylarking]

@Smashfist, I have a complete set of the old printed service manuals for a few of the older vehicles I’ve owned. They are a great resource though these manuals were somewhat expensive at the time. However, back then they were a one time cost but in today’s dollars still much cheaper compared to the current full time electronic access methods.

Today, access to information is structured to be cost prohibitive for many a DIY enthusiast. It isn’t even close to being fair so having a sook is probably warranted though a waisted emotion on these heartless multinationals.

This issue of service information access IS being looked at via the franchise royal commission but sadly i doubt we’d see much change happen via ACCC submissions as they are still suffering regulatory capture. I won’t be holding my breath waiting for change

But thanks for reminding me to chase some knowledge of these MDI service tools and TDS subscriptions. I’ve still got 6 years before warranty runs out so no hurry for me as I won’t be self servicing just yet. However, I do wonder how long the older MSI tools will continue to have access after MSI2 becomes the standard (as the servers they connect to may shut them out after some time). I’m not really wanting to buy an orphan tool for my possibly orphaned vehicle (if GM drops the Holden brand from the market).

 

[Smashfist]

I'd imagine the GM software will still be available. When I exited the dealer I worked at we could still connect and update/get security clearance for a Tech2 and it supported all sorts of orphan vehicles (i.e. Saab, Hummer, etc). Plenty of dealers are likely to keep original MDIs around as they weren't cheap and will still be useful for older (mainly pre MY19/MY20) vehicles.

My reference to sooking is more about third party repairers who have this information available but refuse to play on the same playing field as a dealership. It's there if you can justify paying for it.

For individuals, access starts at something like $40 or $50USD per 3 day block - half price or less than an hour's worth of diagnosis time at a dealer.

If I recall go to www.acdelcotds.com and you can find out info for subs there.

 

[Skylarking]

Yeah, I still prefer printed workshop manual that is accessible to me 24/7 rather than buying a 3 day block each time I want to look at something. Just personal preference but it’s good to know GM won’t orphan the old gear so it’s a solution I may look into (at a later time).

I do find it odd that Holden doesn’t sell a genuine PDF workshop manual down under since GM (affiliate?) does sell the Chevy SS workshop manual in the US.

As for 3rd party service businesses sooking, I suspect Holden service may get some kickbacks as part of their franchise agreement with Holden that put the 3rd parties service businesses at a disadvantage. Maybe the sook is justified, maybe not.

In a perfect world, GM/H could have designed these vehicles at trivial extra cost to allow service diagnostics and programming via MyLink. That would have put dealer service, 3rd party service and the home mechanic on the same footing - heaven forbid. But it’s not a perfect world as GM wants to do all it can to protect their dealer service business at the expense of 3rd party information access so not a level playing field. Oddly, GM is more open with info in the US as I suspect it’s forced by law. Down under, the idiots run the asylum and previously available info from government web sites was removed.

But thanks for the heads up on the tools, I may call on you when i get closer to going down that part

 

[Smashfist]

I suspect Holden service may get some kickbacks as part of their franchise agreement with Holden that put the 3rd parties service businesses at a disadvantage.

Nope, can confirm it's exactly the same price for dealers as third parties. There are plenty of back end shenanigans money wise but dealers pay a yearly subscription fee for SI/GDS/programming access. The shenanigans are for all sorts of other things, i.e. mandatory rental car program, customer satisfaction incentives/kickbackes etc.

There is a PDF version of the workshop manual floating around on here, I don't have access to SI anymore as I'm not at a dealer but the PDF copy is essentially screenshot extracts of the online version and 100% the same.

They COULD have allowed more freedom on them but it's always a trade off, particularly when using the same part across a number of vehicles. For example the body control module is the same part across a bunch of different cars, so it doesn't come preconfigured with any software - you have to install the module then connect to the GM servers and download the correct package for a VIN. The online system also ensures that when you replace a particular module, by making you connect online and download it, you have the latest software version for bug fixes. Older vehicles (i.e. the VE platform) had some "dumb" modules that came preconfigured with software ready to go, but when the software was updated for some sort of bug it makes the existing stock basically worthless (a good example of this is the HVAC control modules, they had software part number supercessions as well as hardware revisions).

The current setup is essentially the best tradeoff for all these factors, and while GM don't HAVE to make it available to everyone, they choose to (at a reasonable price I reckon too, excluding the MDI tool).

 

[RossK]

Final update - faulty HVAC module and control panel, both replaced and now functioning as normal.